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  • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Bill, this "discussion" was started when I commented on your Babe Ruth is famous assertion. I was completely surprised, that you, of all people, would say such a thing.
    I know. I'm not upset or angry or anything. Just surprised that my belief that Babe was one of the most famous people would be controversial. It felt safe when I typed it.

    I didn't suggest a sample size. What if I suggested a sample size that was LARGE?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
      I know. I'm not upset or angry or anything. Just surprised that my belief that Babe was one of the most famous people would be controversial. It felt safe when I typed it.

      I didn't suggest a sample size. What if I suggested a sample size that was LARGE?
      Hmmm...
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
        I know. I'm not upset or angry or anything. Just surprised that my belief that Babe was one of the most famous people would be controversial. It felt safe when I typed it.

        I didn't suggest a sample size. What if I suggested a sample size that was LARGE?
        Put it this way, he's as well known as any American athlete that has passed away, easily.

        One of his bats sold for 1.3 million. His likeness, his name, his image is still used as endorsmants for Sears, Lipton, Prudential Insurance, Coca Cola, IBM, Nationwide Insurance and more............all after he was dead for decades.

        I doubt any who were not alive when he was active, probably no one on this board can imagine the impact and popularity Babe had. I have a good idea because Proquest is my second home and there are endless Ruth articles, daily.
        Folks demanded their money back at one exhibition game, near riot, Babe was a no show, police were called in to restore order. Ruth was not there at game time but peace prevailed, he showed late.

        How does a baseball player with no act sign a contract with booking agent Pantages in 1926 for 100,000.00 to do a stage act over 12 weeks.
        At that time, the highest pay day for an individual act.........including the biggest actors and vaudeville acts in that day.... a ballplayer.
        All he had to do was stand on stage and be Babe Ruth, he was a hit.

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        • Originally posted by leewileyfan
          It's not controversial at all. Bill. There's still a candy bar out there that many sweet-toothers associate with the Babe even though there is no connection. Ali was mentioned as more famous; and I would dispute that. Ali promoted himself endlessly; became a center of many controversies; then won considerable empathy with what ultimately happened to the bold, brash kid of memory.

          Babe was no angel; but his accomplishments, in his field, coupled with some monumental "feats" so won the fans and the media that no good deed or charitable work could go unnoticed ... not because he broadcast it but because he was followed everywhere. Sure, he capitalized on the easy bucks. He lived large.

          We may think he is fading from memory a bit 60 years after his death; but I very much doubt it. Everywhere that baseball is played, Mexico, South America, Europe, the Far East the great barnstormer is much remembered ... good call.
          Thsts what the court said dealing with the candy bar. Read the court transcript and see what a joke the decision was. Curtiss had the balls to say.......Babe Ruth was not that well known in 1921.

          Of course an athlete who performed in our time and again.........the man is still alive, the other dead for over 6 decades, the present will be more well known.

          There is no athlete that has passed away that is as well known as Ruth. The man's estate still makes a few million on endorsments and he's not alive, has not been for years.Some of his items sold for over a million dollars and may others 500 to 800 thousand dollars.
          His legacy is still strong.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
            Thsts what the court said dealing with the candy bar. Read the court transcript and see what a joke the decision was. Curtiss had the balls to say.......Babe Ruth was not that well known in 1921.
            Well, when I was a kid, in the 1940s, I had simply assumed that there was a link between the Babe and the candy bar. As I recall, it was during WW II [Babe was still living] and the adults in the family kinda passed it on to me that "Babe" and the candy bar were unrelated. That seemed the consensus at the time. I never heard the Babe endorse the candy bar; so it was an easy enough "fact" to accept. I don't have to read court transcripts to prove anything. Links I've just read seem to make it fodder for the lawyers to fatten up on [and they may still be at it]. For me, it's moot.

            :Of course an athlete who performed in our time and again.........the man is still alive, the other dead for over 6 decades, the present will be more well known.
            While you may make a valid point that generally, celebs that are relatively more current in the "fan base" memory are more "famous," I'd argue that when relative celebrity among the current, not-so-current and departed is discussed as a topic, there are some names that are over-arching. Babe is one of those.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by leewileyfan View Post
              Well, when I was a kid, in the 1940s, I had simply assumed that there was a link between the Babe and the candy bar. As I recall, it was during WW II [Babe was still living] and the adults in the family kinda passed it on to me that "Babe" and the candy bar were unrelated. That seemed the consensus at the time. I never heard the Babe endorse the candy bar; so it was an easy enough "fact" to accept. I don't have to read court transcripts to prove anything. Links I've just read seem to make it fodder for the lawyers to fatten up on [and they may still be at it]. For me, it's moot.



              While you may make a valid point that generally, celebs that are relatively more current in the "fan base" memory are more "famous," I'd argue that when relative celebrity among the current, not-so-current and departed is discussed as a topic, there are some names that are over-arching. Babe is one of those.
              I grew up and took interest in the game as you did some years later and like you was told that the candy bar was named after Babe and believed that. Then in later years read an article that said the candy bar was not named after Babe, actually named after President Grover Cleveland's daughter Ruth.......and believed that.

              As a young adult did some research and concluded that Curtiss Candy Company got away with one here. Ruth Cleveland died in 1904 many years before the candy bar came out. And again the silly statement by Curtiss that Babe Ruth was not that well known in 1921..... did anyone buy that one. I guess it would be difficult to disprove their line, that it was named after Ruth Cleveland. Babe Ruth received hundreds, probably thousands of Baby Ruth wrappers looking for an autograph from Babe.

              I know you know the game so I'm assuming you are aware, some may not be...........that Curtiss took Babe to court in later years and won a court case, blocking Babe rrom putting out his own candy bar... Ruth's Home Run Candy Bar.
              Not the end I have more coming on Babe and Curtiss Candy.
              Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-02-2012, 06:18 AM.

              Comment


              • Honus and some others seem to have a problem with any who believe that there was never a ball player the equal of Babe Ruth and any who stand on that are nothing but Babe Ruth groupies.
                He inserts a great athlete and man Ali and points out that he is far more well known than Babe. So what about, again comparing a dead man to one who is still with us.
                Not going to debate or feel down that this may be true. In the past I may have pointed out that for one that has been gone so long, many years, even teenagers know something of Babe Ruth and not all from the United State. Now and then I receive emails from other countries asking questions about Babe and also for photos.

                When Babe's pitching is brought up, full years pitching it's the same old worn out story by "some" posters.......well he pitched in the dead ball era...... just like some of the other greats.
                In his years as a "pitcher only" 1915-16-17 there were only two pitchers better then him, two of the greatest, Walter Johnson and Grover Alexander. Averaged over those three seasons Babe had the lowest H/9 Inn, 6.64

                I will add in those years he two hit and one hit the best hitting team in the game, in both leagues, the Tigers. The two hitter, a bloop that hit on the foul line and a solid legit line drive by the great one Ty Cobb. The one hit in that one hitter, infield hit, a drive that struck Babe in the leg, runner beat the throw 8th inning.

                Get use to it doubters, there was never a talent like Babe, why not just accept a fact, even if you don't like it.

                Oh, more luck, he goes to the outfield at just the right time.........live ball era. Really, since 1920 thousands of others have played live ball and they can't match him as a combo hitter/slugger.

                Some time back I pointed out how he stepped out of an institution in February 1914, never played any real organized ball, no high school, no college and steps in to the International League in that very same year and his record 22-9 one of the best in the league, also hit 11 triples. Wait a minute, more Babe luck. One poster made the statement, the International League was poor talent, that Babe gets all the breaks in the game.

                Then the clincher some posters projecting what Babe might be like today............are you ready, Steve Balboni, maybe Adam "no contact' Dunn.....................I have no comment.

                So accept the facts, 99 percent of polls over years and up to today, it's always Ruth on top.
                Closing either Babe Ruth was a hell of a player, pitcher and hitter....or he was the luckiest player to put on the spikes, you make the choice.
                Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-02-2012, 09:08 AM.

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                • Originally posted by leewileyfan View Post
                  Well, when I was a kid, in the 1940s, I had simply assumed that there was a link between the Babe and the candy bar. As I recall, it was during WW II [Babe was still living] and the adults in the family kinda passed it on to me that "Babe" and the candy bar were unrelated. That seemed the consensus at the time. I never heard the Babe endorse the candy bar; so it was an easy enough "fact" to accept. I don't have to read court transcripts to prove anything. Links I've just read seem to make it fodder for the lawyers to fatten up on [and they may still be at it]. For me, it's moot.



                  While you may make a valid point that generally, celebs that are relatively more current in the "fan base" memory are more "famous," I'd argue that when relative celebrity among the current, not-so-current and departed is discussed as a topic, there are some names that are over-arching. Babe is one of those.
                  Guess who paid the Babe Ruth family and estate some bucks for use of his name and image in later years..........Curtiss Candy Company, who have since been taken over by Nestles. Check out the names on a Babe Ruth stand up I was given by a local supermarket many years ago.....there it is the Baby Ruth candy bar is one of them.

                  How many athletes, how many celebrities that were born in the in the very late 1800's performed in the early 1910's-1930's, passed away over half a century ago are collecting bucks for using their name and image, who are they. Just a small number paying his estate, Sears, IBM, Prudential Ins, Coca Cola, Lipton, Nestles, Nationwide Insurance and a number of others.
                  I think this speaks, proves the fact that he left his mark, even after all those decades gone by.
                  Babe Ruth is not just the greatest ballplayer ever, he stepped over the foul lines, he's an American icon.
                  Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-02-2012, 12:55 PM.

                  Comment


                  • For some reason these two images would not upload in my previous post. This is the stand up Babe Ruth that was on display some years ago in number of supermarkets. As I pointed out, you can see the Baby Ruth Candy bar. So in the end Babe, his estate was paid some bucks in later years, long after the candy bar came out in 1921. Curtiss is no longer, now it's Nestles.
                    Here it is.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-02-2012, 09:05 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post


                      Once again, will Ali as an athlete be spoken of as much as Ruth after being gone for many decades.
                      I'd take Ruth over a trash-talking, draft dodger any day

                      Comment


                      • Wherefore all this dissention in the ranks? No need for malice, rancor or such. We're all buds just trying to amuse ourselves with a little, healthy sports talk. Aren't we?

                        Here I tried to stimulate some needed Babe talk and it turns into . . . what? This? We're better than this mi amigos. Much better. Let's keep this positive, friendly sparring. OK?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bigfoot 88
                          This is the best site there is. Not the most active, but that means there are less less serious fans.
                          This is for sure the baseball board of all baseball boards. Been all over the internet, none like this one, there are more guys and maybe a few girls that know as much about this game as you willl ever find on any board.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bigfoot 88
                            This is the best site there is. Not the most active, but that means there are less less serious fans.
                            There was a time this was true.

                            Comment


                            • Has anybody ever seen a photo of Johnny Sylvester returning the favor and visiting Babe in the hospital when he was being treated for cancer?
                              "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by hellborn View Post
                                Has anybody ever seen a photo of Johnny Sylvester returning the favor and visiting Babe in the hospital when he was being treated for cancer?
                                Babe visits Johnny and Johnny visiting Babe. Those are the signed balls that Johnny received in 1926.

                                Soon other great athletes got in to the act. Jack Dempsey boxing gloves, Bill Tilden tennis racquet and a football from Red Grange, all autographed and sent to Johnny.
                                Attached Files

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