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*Babe Ruth Thread*

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  • SHOELESSJOE3 where did Ruth usually bat in the order when pitching for the Red Sox?
    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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    • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
      SHOELESSJOE3 where did Ruth usually bat in the order when pitching for the Red Sox?
      Obviously I have not gone over all box scores in the news archives, but have seen a great number.

      I would almost bet from what I have seen Babe batted 9th in just about every game when pitching for the Bosox from 1914-1917, the years he was a pitcher only.

      1918 and 1919 there were a good many games when he batting higher up in the line up when pitching, usually 4th.

      One of his first games when pitching and batting 4th and may have been his first ever, pitching and batting 4th, was on May 9, 1918, talk about a pitcher losing a tough game
      Bosox up by a run in the 9th inning when Walter Johnson pinch hitting tied the score with a sac fly. Washington then goes up 4-3 in the 10th Johnson stays in the game is now pitching. Retires first batter in the 10th then Ruth hits a double to the scoreboard, then thrown out attempted steal of third, Johnson retires the side, Washington 4- Bosox 3.

      The double Babe hit off of Johnson was his third double of the game, his 5th hit. He was 5 for 5, single, 3 doubles and a triple and the losing pitcher.
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      Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 03-22-2012, 06:46 AM.

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      • Different world back then, who needed security, I would have loved to sat in on this game. Babe carrying the young boy to the dugout.
        In case you wonder............why was Babe carrying his bat around the bases. Earlier in the year, twice after hitting one out and rounding the bases, spectators ran on to the fieled and made an attempt to make of with one of Babe's bats.

        Should point out, this home run ended the game and back then spectators would just flood the playing field and with all the confusion and mass of people, make it easier for one to make off with his bat.
        No security at all back then. In many games when the game ended with Babe in the outfield, he would make a mad dash to the dugout to escape people running on to the field. Holding his hat high over his head after having a couple taken right off his head.
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        Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 03-21-2012, 04:50 PM.

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        • He may have lived only 53 years but at the pace he lived it was probably like 100 years.
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          • Airmail delivery for the Bam.
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            • People say that players today have many more distractions than 80-90 years ago. Although I believe that to be true, I think Babe Ruth just might be an exception to that rule.

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              • Originally posted by pheasant View Post
                People say that players today have many more distractions than 80-90 years ago. Although I believe that to be true, I think Babe Ruth just might be an exception to that rule.
                I hear about how there is so much more pressure on players today, chasing hitting streaks, chasing records, may be true in general.
                Babe Ruth had no peace and he probably loved every minute of it, the press was always all over him. If there was ever pressure on any ballplayer to live up to his rep and deliver in crucial situations, it was Ruth on the biggest stage NY City and he was always a good bet to come through.

                Talk about chasing Dimmagio's 56 games, today. Think of what it was like for Joe playing in New York and the press.

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                • Of course, players in Ruth and Cobb's era had other types of pressure. Pitchers got to brush them back at will without being tossed out of the game. With Ruth and Hornsby, you'd likely pay with a home run. With Cobb, you'd pay by fielding a bunt down the first base line and then getting run over or spiked.

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                  • I did touch on Babe and some shifts put on him in the other thread "Dead Pull Hitters", that died quickly. Unlike todays sluggers, he would just go the other way and even lay down some bunts down third base.
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                    • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                      I did touch on Babe and some shifts put on him in the other thread "Dead Pull Hitters", that died quickly. Unlike todays sluggers, he would just go the other way and even lay down some bunts down third base.
                      Excluding the 1923 season,Ruth had 43 bunt singles.That one clipping above is a bunt single from 1923-that brings his total to 44.For some reason Ruth`s bunt totals were not kept for the 1923 season.The only way to find that total would be going through press clippings like the one you posted from 1923.Box scores wouldn`t help because a bunt is just another single.It is like the situation of tallying the number of times Cobb stole home.A stolen base is a stolen base.Researchers have to go through the press clippings to find references to Cobb stealing home.It was 35 at one time,now it is 54 I believe.Ruth batted .393 in 1923 and played like a man possessed(he even racked up 378 putouts in the outfield),wouldn`t be surprising if he got maybe 7 bunt singles for 1923,which would give him 50 for his career.

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                      • Caption says 1915:

                        sigpic

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                        • On Babe and the bunts, I do have a number of news game recaps that point out his bunts, with dates.
                          Here he is practiing his bunting, an article that shows him bunting early in NY 1921 season and some articles from 1924, the year he led the laegue in batting .378.
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                          • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                            If your speaking of IBB's, I don't think they recorded those until around 1955.

                            The writer does say that one walk was intentional, they did use the term back then. You will see that term used and noted in " some" game recaps in the newspaper archives.

                            More action in that game, police stage a raid in the right field bleachers...........during the game, 16 arrested for gambling.
                            No I was referring to this boxscore which you posted in post #1379, which lists OPS.
                            My top 10 players:

                            1. Babe Ruth
                            2. Barry Bonds
                            3. Ty Cobb
                            4. Ted Williams
                            5. Willie Mays
                            6. Alex Rodriguez
                            7. Hank Aaron
                            8. Honus Wagner
                            9. Lou Gehrig
                            10. Mickey Mantle

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                            • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                              No I was referring to this boxscore which you posted in post #1379, which lists OPS.
                              OK GJ, now I got ya.
                              If I recall and I'm almost certain, I got that box score at Baseball Reference...........not from the newspaper archives.
                              Looks to me like when Baseall Reference lists a box score, they calculate some stats that were not even known then and insert the stat, in this case OPS.

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                              • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                                On Babe and the bunts, I do have a number of news game recaps that point out his bunts, with dates.
                                Here he is practiing his bunting, an article that shows him bunting early in NY 1921 season and some articles from 1924, the year he led the laegue in batting .378.
                                That is an incredible picture, Shoeless. This may be my favorite picture of them all. You can see that the ball has travelled less than 4 feet after he made contact. And you can see where the ball hit the ground after the bunt. Based on the angle of his bat and the position of his body, Ruth bunted a ball that was a couple of inches below the knees and about 4-6 inches inside. It is incredibly tough to bunt balls that are thrown to this area of the plate. This was just another junk pitch that was thrown to Ruth to contain him. I think it's possible that Ruth could have walked 200+ times had he laid off more pitches. But he was paid to hit HRs, so he swung at more pitches outside the zone.

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