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*Babe Ruth Thread*

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  • Randy. That research is very invaluable. I didn't know Yankee Stadium was that tough on Babe. I had always read that his home/away breakdown splits for homers was about even. I didn't realize that so many of his Yankee Stadium homers were to the right side of the ballpark.

    Did Jenkinson do the same analysis for the Babe's 2 short porches in the Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium? Just curious. I've always wondered how much the porches helped, and didn't realize how much the Death Valley hurt.

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    • Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
      Randy. That research is very invaluable. I didn't know Yankee Stadium was that tough on Babe. I had always read that his home/away breakdown splits for homers was about even. I didn't realize that so many of his Yankee Stadium homers were to the right side of the ballpark.

      Did Jenkinson do the same analysis for the Babe's 2 short porches in the Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium? Just curious. I've always wondered how much the porches helped, and didn't realize how much the Death Valley hurt.
      Hello Bill,

      Do not let the title of the book fool you, "The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 HomeRuns"...that only scratches the surface. It is a must have book for any baseball enthusiast and covers many things. The comparative difficulty chapter, and how it applies to Babe specifically, is enlightening.

      Yeah, we all knew that DiMaggio was killed by Yankee Stadium. Through Jenkinson's extensive research, we have an idea just how much. Literally from deep left center to deep right center was an "off limits" graveyard.

      And for Ruth, left center, to center was the same. Pitchers could simply pound the outside and force Babe into either trying to pull it, or launch one into the pasture. That's why, when people question his batting eye, or his patience (forget about walks), it makes me chuckle. Imagine the constant conundrum he faced, from pitch to pitch, wanting to be aggressive but knowing he should wait for that middle-in mistake.

      To answer your question, yes, Jenkinson has charted every ball Ruth hit, for every year, home and away. The premise of the book deals with today's average ballpark dimensions (330-375-405), overlaid on top of, say, the Polo Grounds. I will show you a couple just from home games, so you can see for yourself.

      According to Jenkinson's research.... In 1920 and 1921 he gained eight "cheap" Polo Grounds HR right down the line, which would not be HR in the average MLB park. He gains four however, due to the fair/foul rule, and has a combined 42 others, that were long drives, not HR. Certainly not all 42 were fly-outs but playing against some of that eras ball hawks, who were already playing him deep, a good number had to be.

      And then there's Fenway from 1915-1918 Forget the average MLB dimensions, if you just give Babe the Fenway that Teddy Ballgame enjoyed, he gains several dingers. Check the far black dot way out in right field, not a homer. That was a tenth inning walk off against Cleveland that according to Jenkinson, went thirty rows deep and estimated at 490 ft. Of course different rules at the time. Believe he got credit for a double on that one.

      One other note, the black dot, very top in the nook. You might enjoy this.

      "From the plate on the 18th (May) against Detroit, he hit a double so far over Ty Cobb's head in center field that it flew past the remote flagpole in the Old Fenway configuration. Standing on second base, Babe taunted Ty. But should Ruth have been laughing, when Cobb limited him to two bases on a drive of 460 feet? Perhaps not, but Babe Ruth found humor easily."


      To answer your question about YS, according to Jenkinson, from 1923-1934, Ruth gained 32 "cheap" homers down the line, and lost 23 due to the fair/foul rule. The others he lost are too many to count.

      JenkinsonsCharts.jpg
      Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 08-26-2016, 08:34 PM.

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      • Babe's 104 Home Runs is a great book. If I remember correctly, Jenkinson stated that Ruth would have had 35 HRs in 1918 if the parks he was playing in were of today's dimensions. I.e, we are talking about a player not playing at full capacity(tired from pitching 17 or 18 complete games that year with 13 wins in a 126 game season), a dead ball, facing scuffed balls, dirty, or spit balls in a partial season blasting 35 bombs. Those numbers project out to 43 HRs and 16 wins over a 154 game season. 1918 was Ruth at his best. Not bad for a 23 year old in the Dead Ball era. Ruth literally embarassed MLB. I guess if I dominated that much, I would have not slept and caroused like he did too.

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        • Thanks, Randy. I find all this information totally instructive. You need to stay and continue your work, here. This place needs YOU to bring this to life. This is where you are supposed to be. Forget everything else and focus on YOUR WORK. That is all that matters. Our work will out-live us. You need to hang here and get your important work as documented as humanly possible.

          Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.

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          • I don't understand why MLB hasn't made a better effort to enforce "uniform" ballpark dimensions. Of course, too late for any of that now, and having each ballpark with it's own unique characteristics is very cool. What if in the NBA, you had a different basket heights in different cities lol. Guess it's up to us and incredible historians like Jenkinson, to put things into perspective.

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            • Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
              Thanks, Randy. I find all this information totally instructive. You need to stay and continue your work, here. This place needs YOU to bring this to life. This is where you are supposed to be. Forget everything else and focus on YOUR WORK. That is all that matters. Our work will out-live us. You need to hang here and get your important work as documented as humanly possible.

              Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.
              Thanks Bill. I can't leave because you're still learning about Ruth

              If you need any help with photos, lemme know bud.

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              • That's right! You can't leave because you are still schooling me on the relative facts on how Babe overcame his disadvantages.

                And if you're still old-schooling me, a seasoned vet of the Fever trenches, imagine how much more our rookies need your information.

                You need to document every single iota of Babe Ruth so that the future fans will have it to refer to. Fever members come and go. Not relevant. Your documentations will live FOREVER, my brother. That outweighs all the Fever jack-asses. Ignore what you must, document all you can.

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                • Probably one of his longest at Yankee Stadium not hit to right field. This was just a bit to left of dead center , beyond the running track, not far from the 490 marker. Edge of track not very far from the bleachers.
                  Looks to be the ball had to travel around 470 feet.
                  Even hit that far, he had to run it out, IPHR.
                  Attached Files

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                  • Not much difference overall down the lines.
                    Older parks a bit longer in the power alleys.
                    Older parks, on average much deeper in CF, almost 40 feet deeper.
                    Some very long distances to CF, 1920's

                    Look at it this way, some highlights we see on TV nightly, bombs hit for home runs to CF 430-450 feet. In some of the old parks they wouldn't reach the fence, wall.
                    Attached Files

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                    • And that's also what helped Ruth, and players back then, put up such high BA.

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                      • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                        And that's also what helped Ruth, and players back then, put up such high BA.
                        Thats true Randy, there is a plus and a minus to those long distances.

                        More area for ball to drop in front of a deep playing fielder. Or even between outfielders playing deep, more distance between the outfielders, could depend on how they shade the batter.
                        On the other side, some long drives are just long outs and that effects the slugging percentage. Charged in one at bat with no bases gained, homer 4 bases gained.

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                        • Shoeless, do you know how to make this "save-able" as a .gif video?

                          http://youtu.be/oI-Ij5AQC9k

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                            Shoeless, do you know how to make this "save-able" as a .gif video?

                            http://youtu.be/oI-Ij5AQC9k
                            Sorry Randy, I don't, should be some of the members on the board that may be able to help.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                              Shoeless, do you know how to make this "save-able" as a .gif video?

                              http://youtu.be/oI-Ij5AQC9k
                              You can download and install a program called YTD Video Downloader. The link below is for a CNET download, which I generally like to use, as they check software for spyware. If you install it, just make sure to deny permission for any toolbars to be installed along with YTD Video Downloader. The program works quite well, and you can select the resolution of the download you want (if different versions are available on YouTube). The program also works with some other video sites.

                              http://download.cnet.com/YTD-Video-D...-10647340.html


                              That particular video in 360 resolution is a 10 MB file. I just saved it as an .mp4 file. You probably wouldn't want to save it as a GIF file.

                              If you install YTD Video Downloader (make sure to create a desktop shortcut if you do), you just cut-and-paste the YouTube page URL into the window in the program.


                              Might as well embed the video in the thread.

                              Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 11-28-2012, 09:49 PM.
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                              • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                                Probably one of his longest at Yankee Stadium not hit to right field. This was just a bit to left of dead center , beyond the running track, not far from the 490 marker. Edge of track not very far from the bleachers.
                                Looks to be the ball had to travel around 470 feet.
                                Even hit that far, he had to run it out, IPHR.
                                Of course, the "490" marker wasn't in place until 1928. And in 1923, that far corner was at least 498 feet from home plate. I've found stories that state that home plate was moved up by "about 10 feet", 12 feet, and 15 feet before the 1924 season. I think the 12 foot figure is the most accurate, as it was stated in a NYT article after the fact.


                                Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 11-28-2012, 09:59 PM.
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