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*Babe Ruth Thread*

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  • Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
    What is Ruth's complete career line against LHP, based on your research, Randy?
    I don't have complete numbers. Only the ones I posted on the stats site. He was a white guy who played before integration, so I'm sure he hit about .125 against lefties.

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    • Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
      I'm not saying you're blind, brother! Clearly you've dedicated years and years of your life to studying Ruth. And you've contributed more in my time here than anyone to edifying us all on Babe. And I admire your time, effort, and passion. Probably admire it more than you even know!

      I suppose the best way I can sum this up....name one other athletic endeavor where you or I WOULDN'T be laughed out of the room during a debate if we claimed that someone born in the 1800's is undeniably the greatest in the history of their respective sport.
      Personally, I think that the people laughing are the ignorant ones. George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson and Wilt all have very legitimate claim to being the best ever basketball players. In football a case can be made for Jim Thorpe, Red Grange, Jim Brown, Otto Graham, and Johnny Unitas. Were not Bill Tilden or Ben Hogan's careers as good as any in their respective sports? I don't see the reason for disregarding players, just because they played in the past. The past keeps growing.

      We don't downgrade Shakespeare or DiVinci because time has passed by. Is Napolean a worse general that Shwortzkopf, because he lived in an earlier time. I've never understood the rationale about downgrading athletes who were dominant in their time.
      This week's Giant

      #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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      • Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
        We don't downgrade Shakespeare or DiVinci because time has passed by. Is Napolean a worse general that Shwortzkopf, because he lived in an earlier time. I've never understood the rationale about downgrading athletes who were dominant in their time.
        The Shakespeare and DiVinci comparison is interesting, obviously, because it has nothing to do with physical prowess. On the sliding scale, with UFC perhaps being on one end, and competitive whistling on the other...I think those artists are closer to whistling dixie than performing a rear naked choke. And baseball, as more of a finesse sport compared to others, certainly holds up over time for player comparisons.

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        • The only way I can see it, of the team sports baseball unlike basketball and football is not effected as much by size, bodyweight or even overall strength.
          Is the sport at this time comprised, overall of bigger, stronger better conditioned athletes, I would say yes. But even at that it can't be said that if we took the top 5 or 6 percent of the best or greatest from any time period thst they could not play on the same level as the best in the game today.
          How many time do we have to say that on the offensive part of the game that Wagner, Cobb, Ruth and some others would not dominate today as they did then, overall the level of the game has changed.
          But how do we know that if Cobb was playing today that his skills and determination might put him in the top two or three hitters in the game and he wouldn't have to bat .366 to hold that position. Not to say that it would be that way, but to be considered.

          On the other side of those believing Babe could rank at the top today are those comparing him to Adam Dunn, Jim Thome, they seem to be off the mark as well.

          Again when we're speaking of Wagner, Cobb, Ruth and a "small" number of others, we're not speaking of the rank and file or just "very good" players from the past, these were special athletes.

          What do we do about Ted Williams, reevaluate him. Sure the game was in the stages of integration in his time while there was none for the other three I mentioned but stop and think, Ted played his last game 52 years ago, lots of changes in the make up of the game.
          To keep bringing up changes in the games basketball, football, track and some others has some validity but baseball unlike those other sports is not effected by the changes of those in the sport as much..

          I can just imagine 50 years or more from now. The young fan heaping praise on the super baseball player in his time and the older fan telling him...................yea, but you never saw Bonds, Pujols or Greg Maddux, those were "real" ballplayers.......................where does it end, does it ever end.
          Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-17-2013, 02:51 AM.

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          • I remember talking to Clyde Sukeforth @88 about Mr. Manush, and he was still Very impressed in his mind w Heinie's talent, hitting and drive. I can't imagine therefore what the impact of Ruth was like at the time, to read what contemporaries said about Him. If that makes sense?

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            • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
              comparing him to Adam Dunn, Jim Thome
              It isn't even fair to Jim Thome to be compared to Adam Dunn, let alone Babe. Thome and Griffey are the best LH power hitters since Ruth. No contest. I'd compare Ruth to Griffey Jr. before Thome.

              Maybe Josh Hamilton too. Who was a big time pitching prospect.
              "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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              • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                It isn't even fair to Jim Thome to be compared to Adam Dunn, let alone Babe. Thome and Griffey are the best LH power hitters since Ruth. No contest. I'd compare Ruth to Griffey Jr. before Thome.

                Maybe Josh Hamilton too. Who was a big time pitching prospect.
                Never looked at it that way because Babe was the issue.
                But I see your point, Thome respectable hitter, Dunn not on the same page as Jim.

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                • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                  It isn't even fair to Jim Thome to be compared to Adam Dunn, let alone Babe. Thome and Griffey are the best LH power hitters since Ruth. No contest. I'd compare Ruth to Griffey Jr. before Thome.

                  Maybe Josh Hamilton too. Who was a big time pitching prospect.
                  Barry Bonds and Ted Williams played after Ruth. One could list Gehrig too.
                  This week's Giant

                  #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
                    Barry Bonds and Ted Williams played after Ruth. One could list Gehrig too.
                    Good call on T. Ballgame and Larrupin' Lou. I'd take Griffey over all of them but Ruth, though.
                    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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                    • Originally posted by TomBodet View Post
                      He was clearly the dominant figure in pop culture here in the States during the '20's. I don't think we realize just how pervasive RUTH was then.
                      I've been researching Babe for years now.
                      I thought I knew how popular, still known he was even today...... did not know how far reaching and not all boys and men
                      That is until I started a Babe Ruth page on Facebook some time ago.
                      I get a good number of requests from many countries for pics of The Babe.

                      These are only a few out of dozens and dozens of Babe comments, from all over the world. Even a few not shown here from Eastern Europe.
                      Thinking how long he has been gone, yet so many know of him...................and remembering his birthday. Looks like The Bam stepped beyond the foul line, the playing field.


                      Helen is from New Guinea.......Rae Ada, Venezuela...... Lucero, Mexico.
                      Attached Files

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                      • Babe Ruth once said of George Earnshaw [A's pitcher]: "I used to send a taxicab to the Almanac Hotel the day he was gonna pitch. I didn't want him to get lost on the way to the stadium." - p. 255 from the book Play Ball
                        "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                          Babe Ruth once said of George Earnshaw [A's pitcher]: "I used to send a taxicab to the Almanac Hotel the day he was gonna pitch. I didn't want him to get lost on the way to the stadium." - p. 255 from the book Play Ball
                          Don't know how he hit George for average but Babe had the most career homers off of Earnshaw with 10.
                          But he also hit 10 off of Walter Johnson, thats the most off of Johnson.
                          He also is tied with Gehrig and Greenberg with 9 career home runs.
                          Could have been 10, one ball cleared the wall at Shibe 1930, Grove pitching. But the ball struck a speaker support, stayed in the park, Babe sent back to second, only a double.

                          He did play more years against Johnson and Grove, seven seasons with Earnshaw.

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                          • One of my favorite Babe with the Bosox home runs.
                            Could this game end any other way. He was honored before the game, "Babe Ruth Day" at Fenway.
                            Attached Files

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                            • Back to 1918: That year, the World Series started on 9/5/1918, so August was the month to clinch the pennant. Ruth started 3 games in July and a whopping 8 games in August down the stretch. Here are the results of those games:
                              07/05/18 CG, won 4-3
                              07/17/18 CG, won 4-0
                              07/29/18 CG, won 3-2
                              08/01/18 CG, won 2-1
                              08/04/18 CG, won 2-1
                              08/08/18 CG, won 4-1
                              08/12/18 CG, lost 1-2
                              08/17/18, CG, won 4-2
                              08/20/18, 7IP, lost 8-4, Ruth's only bad game down the stretch
                              08/24/18, CG, won 3-1
                              08/31/18, CG, won 6-1
                              Total: 12 starts, 11 CG, 9-2 record,1.76 ERA, opponents BA=.184. Of the 11 Complete games, he gave up 2 runs or fewer in 10 of them, and 3 runs in the 11th. I would say that's giving your team a chance to win in all of those games. Of course, he also pitched 2 complete game victories in the World Series in early September. As a matter of fact, Ruth started game 1. And Ruth hit a little that year too.

                              Let's look at Ruth's last month of the season, 1916-1918(clutch month). This is for the regular season only. We already know about his 0.87 ERA in the Fall Classic.

                              1918, August, 8 starts, 7 CG, 6-2 record, 1.73 ERA, opponents batted .188. One loss was a 2-1 CG.
                              1917, Sep/Oct, 7 starts, 7 CG, 4-3 record, 1.89 ERA, opponents batted .219. Ruth was shutout twice and also lost a 2-1 game.
                              1916, Sep/Oct, 8 starts, 6 CG, 6-1 record, 1.26 ERA, opponents batted .222
                              1916-1918, 23 starts, 20 CG, 16-6 record, 1.61 ERA. of his 20 CG, gave up 2 or fewer runs 18 times, tossed 4 shutouts.
                              Ruth also had a game in which he gave up 2 runs in 8.2 innings. Thus, he had 4 games with 3+ runs given up and 4 shutouts; not too shabby.
                              This guy was VERY competitive down the stretch. Unfortunately, I couldn't find 1915 game logs, the year he was a 20 year old rookie. I'm very curious about how he finished 1915 since I know he was ticked off that he didn't get to pitch in that World Series. Perhaps the book "Babe Ruth in Red Stockings" will have the answer. I'll have to dig the book up. It's one of my favorites.
                              Last edited by pheasant; 02-21-2013, 05:11 AM.

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                              • Ruth had his own radio program with his wife after he retired. I guess it was a sports discussion show, but all I know comes from a Bill Stern radio program I heard on XM where Ruth was a guest and talked about his own program for a bit. Anyone ever heard clips or know more about it?
                                Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                                Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                                Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                                Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                                Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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