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Ranking the Legends - Part 1

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  • Ranking the Legends - Part 1

    --For those of you involved in the discussion in the thread "Ranking by groups", this thread will be the poll for the A+ Legends. For those of you finding this for the first time, we are going to take a crack at ranking the all time greats (and some of the all time goods) by group. Instead of arguing whether or not Willie Mays is 1% better or worse than Ty Cobb we can agree they were both at the pinacle of the game. The interesting part will be who earns the last places in each group and who slips to the next one.
    --The polls will be as follows;
    A+: the top 10 players of all time
    A: The top 25 players of all time (elect 15)
    A-: The top 50 players of all time (elect 25)
    B+: The top 100 players of all time (elect 50)
    --If the interest is there (I'll discontine the project if we drop below 10 participants) it will contine as follows;
    B: to 150 (basically the guys who should be in the Hal of Fame
    B-: to 200 (the guys who could be there without discrediting the joint)
    C+: to 250
    C: to 300 (a fair number of guys actually in the Hall are likely to fall her)
    C-: to 400
    D: to 500 (still might be some of the worst HoFers)
    --Please keep in mind that the player ranking as average (the C's) are not average compared to all players, they are just minor legends, All Star types. Even the 500th best player ever is going to be a guy who was pretty good at some point. Not poor, as a D would suggest, just a poor excuse for legend.
    --For those who want to participate in the project, cast a ballot of your 10 best players of all time. Since this project is NOT meant to discuss exactly where these player should be slotted (we've done that plenty before) I'd like them in alphabetical order, rather than your 1-10 ranks. Comments about who was the last to make your cut or hardest to leave off are encouraged.
    --This is for position players only, so please leave pitchers off your ballot. For the A+ ranking a player must appear on a majority of ballots to be elected. If there is a tie for 10th, we will let both players slide to the A balloting. So its a maximum of 10 A+ players, not a set 10. The extra restrictions won't be in play in subsequent rounds (so we might have 8 in our top 10 and 26 in our top 25 ).

  • #2
    My top 10

    Hank Aaron
    Barry Bonds
    Oscar Charleston
    Ty Cobb
    Willie Mays
    Stan Musial
    Babe Ruth
    Mike Schmidt
    Honus Wagner
    Ted Williams
    --Mickey Mantle was my toughest cut. At his best The Mick was pehaps the best player ever to lace up spikes. Unfortunately his best was not as long as any of the guys who did make by ballot. Mantle was an injury prone, defensive liability by his early 30s. Stan Musial beat him out for the last spot on my ballot with his sustained superior performance.

    Comment


    • #3
      Great project idea Mark!

      My 10 would go like this...
      Hank Aaron
      Barry Bonds
      Oscar Charleston
      Ty Cobb
      Willie Mays
      Mickey Mantle
      Babe Ruth
      Mike Schmidt
      Honus Wagner
      Ted Williams

      Comment


      • #4
        Hank Aaron
        Ty Cobb
        Eddie Collins
        Lou Gehrig
        Stan Musial
        Willie Mays
        Babe Ruth
        Mike Schmidt
        Honus Wagner
        Ted Williams

        -Toughest cuts here were Tris Speaker and Mickey Mantle. I believe that being the best ever at 2B and 3B warrants a victory to Collins/Schmidt over Speaker and Mantle even though I have them all close together.
        AL East Champions: 1981 1982
        AL Pennant: 1982
        NL Central Champions: 2011
        NL Wild Card: 2008

        "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

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        • #5
          Babe Ruth
          Ty Cobb
          Ted Williams
          Barry Bonds
          Honus Wagner
          Mickey Mantle
          Willie Mays
          Tris Speaker
          Hank Aaron
          Stan Musial

          Comment


          • #6
            My Top 10

            My Top 10:

            Ty Cobb
            Oscar Charleston
            Buck Ewing
            Lou Gehrig
            Rogers Hornsby
            Pop Lloyd
            Willie Mays
            Babe Ruth
            Tris Speaker
            Honus Wagner
            Last edited by Bill Burgess; 04-11-2006, 06:36 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              --Thought Bonds was solidly in your top 10 Bill? I go back and forth myself. He was out just a few days ago, but rethinking for this project I decided he was the best player of the last quarter century even with a big steroid discount post 1998. That merited inclusion on my ballot.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by leecemark
                --Thought Bonds was solidly in your top 10 Bill? I go back and forth myself. He was out just a few days ago, but rethinking for this project I decided he was the best player of the last quarter century even with a big steroid discount post 1998. That merited inclusion on my ballot.
                He was, but I couldn't deal with his using for a long time. Until recently, it was Ty, Honus, Willie, Barry, Babe, Oscar. Have recently shaken up the lineup.

                Bill

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by leecemark
                  --Thought Bonds was solidly in your top 10 Bill? I go back and forth myself. He was out just a few days ago, but rethinking for this project I decided he was the best player of the last quarter century even with a big steroid discount post 1998. That merited inclusion on my ballot.
                  First and foremost, thanks for getting this going Mark!

                  I agree with your post about Bonds. Almost every part of me wants to take him out of the top 10, but I just can't. Steroids has tainted his career, but the things he was doing on steroids are astronomical. They were like fantasy/video game numbers, it's hard to believe that anyone, even an unnaturally physically enhanced person could do what Bonds did. On many levels, the stuff he did, even while on steroids, is a testament to just how great he was. That being said, his feats are tainted and that has to be considered. So he drops from 1st All-Time among position players so someplace closer to 10 for me, for now. This could very well change one day.

                  Anyway, here is my top 10:

                  Babe Ruth
                  Barry Bonds
                  Hank Aaron
                  Honus Wagner
                  Lou Gehrig
                  Mickey Mantle
                  Stan Musial
                  Ted Williams
                  Ty Cobb
                  Willie Mays

                  Here's a side question, what are peoples' plans for Jackie Robinson? Will he get a boost for his importance to the game, or will he be judged solely based on what he did on the field?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Babe Ruth
                    Ty Cobb
                    Willie Mays
                    Ted Williams
                    Honus Wagner
                    Lou Gehrig
                    Hank Aaron
                    Stan Musial
                    Rogers Hornsby
                    Mickey Mantle ... barely over Speaker

                    $1,000,000 question...how much to dock Bonds for 6 years of steroid use? I honestly don't know. At the end of 1998, I had Bonds ranked #26 all-time. At a normal decline rate, I have a hard time seeing him enter the top 10 realm. Just a hunch. I certainly have no problem with those who include him, however.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Babe Ruth
                      Barry Bonds
                      Mickey Mantle
                      Willie Mays
                      Ted Williams
                      Ty Cobb
                      Honus Wagner
                      Stan Musial
                      Hank Aaron
                      Tris Speaker

                      I refuse to dock bonds for alleged steroid use, because then I would have to be fair and dock all guy's who have " cheated " in the past.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My Top Ten

                        Hank Aaron
                        Barry Bonds- I did give him a steroid discount- from #1 or #2 to #4 or #5. His numbers are so insane from '01-'04, it can't all be attributed to artificial substances. It's not like he was the only one taking the stuff.
                        Ty Cobb- overrated here, but still the #3 player of all time (Is that possible? I think it is.)
                        Josh Gibson
                        Rogers Hornsby
                        Willie Mays
                        Stan Musial
                        Babe Ruth
                        Honus Wagner
                        Ted Williams

                        Toughest cut- not sure, but I will say that Mike Schmidt didn't even sniff my list. There is absolutely no place for a .270 hitter on a list like this, IMO.

                        Last to make it- Rogers Hornsby. The first nine came right away to me, then I had to think about the tenth guy. I chose Hornsby over Gehrig because of the position that he played, and because I think that Gehrig had an advantage hitting behind that Ruth guy.

                        For the purposes of this poll I suppose that I wasted my vote on Gibson. Once again, I will reiterate the fact that this is the only place I have ever seen that has Gibson ranked below Charleston. Perhaps it is a testament to our baseball knowledge and insight, perhaps it is a desire to be weird. I really see Gibson as just below Ruth offensively, not by much, and a considerably better and more valuable defensive player.

                        Mark

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ruth
                          Cobb
                          Wagner
                          Mays
                          Aaron
                          Speaker
                          Musial
                          Williams
                          Gehrig
                          Mantle
                          THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                          In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

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                          • #14
                            Hank Aaron
                            Ty Cobb
                            Lou Gehrig
                            Mickey Mantle
                            Willie Mays
                            Stan Musial
                            Babe Ruth
                            Tris Speaker
                            Honus Wagner
                            Ted Williams
                            In alphabetical order ^
                            Last edited by julusnc; 04-11-2006, 08:41 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Whatever happened to

                              "Since this project is NOT meant to discuss exactly where these player should be slotted (we've done that plenty before) I'd like them in alphabetical order, rather than your 1-10 ranks."

                              Comment

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