Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Better Than the Babe

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • charlesTG126
    replied
    oh my

    well that was quick
    Deepest regrets, I forgot to voice my opinon, and that is: I WHOLLY AGREE WITH LEECE (as usual).
    Last edited by charlesTG126; 12-14-2004, 12:28 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • leecemark
    replied
    Why Willie is better than the Babe

    --Just a quick one to get the discussion started before it turns into another Ruth-Cobb thread.
    --I'll concede from the outset that Babe Ruth was a better hitter than Willie Mays. The only guy you could make a hitters arguement for against the Babe would be Ted Williams. The gap between them isn't as wide as it may appear at first glance though. Everyone knows that Babe Ruth once hit more HR than any other team in baseball. That is true and impressive. It is also true that Ruth did so in the only narrow window in time when such a thing was possible.
    --In the first years of the live ball Ruth was the only front line star who was swinging for the fences. He didn't need to adjust to the new conditons because he was already a big swinger even in the deadball era. Within a few years several other players were posting HR totals which, while short of Ruth's mark, would have beaten whole teams just a few years before.
    --Of course, Ruth posted some relative numbers AFTER the other players had made adjustments which also are better than Mays best. However, we need to remember that it was much more difficult to separate from the pack when Mays was playing. The NL of the 50s and 60s was quite possibly the highest level of competiton ever achieved in MLB. It was clearly better than the AL of the 20s and 30s. Ruth was a better hitter, but the gap is not so immense that it can't be made up elsewhere.
    --Willie Mays was arguably the best defensive CF of all time. He was fat the very least amoung the all time elite. Babe Ruth was a best a fairly good corner OFer. He appears to have been above average in his younger days, but even then was switched back and forth between LF and RF to keep in in whichever field had less ground to cover. Later as his weight balloned he became a liability in the field. His last few years he was most likely the worst defensive player in the league. He was frequently taken out for defensive replacements. I'm not sure how much of the offense gap between Ruth this narrows, but it is a significant advantage for Mays.
    --Mays was also the best baserunner of his time. Basestealing was not a big part of the game in his younger days so it is difficult to rank him amoung the best all time, but he was exceptional. Ruth had decent speed as a young player. He was, however, very reckless and was probably a liability on the basepaths even then. Again as he weight increased he became a severe liability on the bases. Later in his career, backup OFer Sammy Byrd pinch ran for Ruth so often he got the nickname "Babe Ruth's legs". Another huge advantage for Mays.
    --Mays was also regarded as an exceptionally smart player and a team leader. Ruth was not noted for his intellect or his dedication to the team. He was frequently suspended for failure to follow team rules. He was also famous for his inability to remember even the names of many of his teammates.
    --Babe Ruth was the greatest hitter of all time. He put more runs on the scoreboard than anybody else and I've always ranked him number one for that. However, If you look at the total package and put it in context there is a very good argument that Mays was more valuable to his teams.

    Leave a comment:


  • leecemark
    replied
    --Abacab, be prepared for a deluge of Cobb arguements. Ty has plenty of supporters so I'll leave that one alone. I think a reasonable arguement can be made for Cobb, Mays or Wagner and maybe Williams. I would have included Bonds until recently. Need some time to get a new perspective on him now.
    --I doubt I can convince even myself, but I'll try to find time to argue for at least one of these guys. Perhaps Mantle if somebody beats me with a good arguement on the other guys. If I really feel like taking a beating I might even post a Schmidt argument.

    Leave a comment:


  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by abacab
    I'd love to see an argument for a more off-the-wall pick. (Mantle? Hornsby? Bob Caruthers?)
    Sammy Byrd, Hub Pruett

    Leave a comment:


  • abacab
    started a topic Better Than the Babe

    Better Than the Babe

    Hey, so I got a cool idea for a thread, and hopefully can get a lot of people to participate. This is as much a persuasive writing exercise as it is baseball.

    The assignment is to choose a position player, and make an argument for him being better than Babe Ruth. 99% of posters here consider Ruth the greatest ever, including myself. But I can see an argument potentially being made for Mays, Cobb, Wagner, Williams, or Bonds.

    So pick a guy and go for it. You don't necessarily have to believe what you're saying; just make it as persuasive as you can. You don't have to pick one of the guys I listed above, either. I'd love to see an argument for a more off-the-wall pick. (Mantle? Hornsby? Bob Caruthers?)

Ad Widget

Collapse
Working...
X