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16th Greatest Pitcher: Will Smokey Joe whip Carlton?

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  • #46
    sorry to be a spoilsport

    but the title of the thread is not proper

    it is like saying which is the best of all 50 states, new york or california

    there are 50 states, 2 states should not be given thread title preference

    similarly there are many pitchers eligible for this vote, why give preference to two pitchers in the title thread? that is prejudicing the vote before it even starts
    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
    2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
    3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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    • #47
      Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
      sorry to be a spoilsport

      but the title of the thread is not proper

      it is like saying which is the best of all 50 states, new york or california

      there are 50 states, 2 states should not be given thread title preference

      similarly there are many pitchers eligible for this vote, why give preference to two pitchers in the title thread? that is prejudicing the vote before it even starts
      It was suggested to me that perhaps the title, 16th Greatest Pitcher was not interesting enough.

      So, I tried to be more interesting. Regardless, it didn't work.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
        It was suggested to me that perhaps the title, 16th Greatest Pitcher was not interesting enough.

        So, I tried to be more interesting. Regardless, it didn't work.
        That is very understandable

        16th greatest pitcher is a little generic

        but prejudicing it is not the proper solution
        1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
        2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
        3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post

          It has been noted by Gibson fans that although he was a great athlete he was not truly a great or even good fielder
          Who somehow won 9 Gold Glove awards????
          It Might Be? It Could Be?? It Is!

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          • #50
            We have received 15 ballots.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
              It was suggested to me that perhaps the title, 16th Greatest Pitcher was not interesting enough.

              So, I tried to be more interesting. Regardless, it didn't work.
              Hang in there, Bill. Adding the names of the 2 top candidates is a good idea, even though the floodgates aren't getting knocked down by voters. It catches the eye, and it makes the (potential) voter think about something. Maybe it's a tiny bit prejudicial, but at least you are using the names of the 2 highest vote getters on the ballot. Hang tough!

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              • #52
                Thanks, BigRon. I'll hang on.

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                • #53
                  We have received 15 ballots so far. The intensity of our ranking pleasure continues unabated. UMMMMMM!!!

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
                    This is quite correct. Ever since I have followed baseball as a child, I have never tried to compare pitchers to non-pitchers. Never made any sense to me.

                    In his earlier Historical Abstracts, Bill James also separated the 2 classes. I wish he always separated them. But I realize that he also has mixed them too.

                    To compare Honus Wagner with Roger Clemens doesn't make much sense and if it doesn't make sense, it's normally not interesting. Which is why I always separate the 2.

                    Why not compare pitchers to pitchers - for their hitting ability?
                    Yeah, Ruth would probably be first. But where would the Big Train fall?
                    Gibson, Drysdale, Bob Lemon, Wes Ferrell?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ItsOnlyGil View Post
                      Why not compare pitchers to pitchers - for their hitting ability?
                      Yeah, Ruth would probably be first. But where would the Big Train fall?
                      Gibson, Drysdale, Bob Lemon, Wes Ferrell?
                      Yeah, pitcher's hitting sometimes had an effect but not that much. Aside from Ruth, who deserved his own category after 1918, not much effect.

                      Walter Johnson probably won some games for himself but for the most part, pitcher's hitting was negligible. Some pitchers didn't stink at hitting, like Spahn, but there was good reason for the introduction of the DH. Most pitchers were counted on as an easy out.

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                      • #56
                        In the 19th century several pitchers could have (and did) survive on their non-pitching skills. Spalding, Caruthers, Bradley, Foutz and others are obvious citations, but many others exist.
                        Wes Ferrell had .797 OPS over 1300+ ABs.
                        Last edited by ItsOnlyGil; 01-17-2010, 10:22 AM.

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                        • #57
                          First place has a pretty good, if not clinching, lead on second. If you're game to call it, Bill, I'll put the results up.
                          "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

                          - Alvin Dark

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                          • #58
                            This is disappointing. We're down to 15 ballots and calling it? This is truly a new low for us.

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                            • #59
                              1. Steve Carlton
                              2. Juan Marichal
                              3. Smokey Joe Williams
                              4. Sandy Koufax
                              5. Mordecai Brown

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                              • #60
                                Thank you so much ConnieMack, sincerely. We're up to 16 ballots. Let's not stop now. Let's keep going.

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