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16th Greatest Pitcher: Will Smokey Joe whip Carlton?

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  • 16th Greatest Pitcher: Will Smokey Joe whip Carlton?

    Congratulations to the 19th Century's Kid Nichols for winning our 15th Greatest Pitcher Poll! After taking 2nd place for 2 rounds in a row, he finally scores. He scored 57 points from our 19 voters, including 5 first place votes. The great Smoky Joe Williams amassed 50 points for second place, picking up 5 first place votes for himself along the way.

    The 16th round for Greatest Pitcher series is now open. Round 16 will end when we receive 20 ballots, however long that takes us.

    1. Walter Johnson
    2. Greg Maddux
    3. Cy Young
    4. Lefty Grove
    5. Pete Alexander
    6. Christy Mathewson
    7. Tom Seaver
    8. Roger Clemens
    9. Randy Johnson
    10. Warren Spahn
    11. Satchel Paige
    12. Pedro Martinez
    13. Bob Feller
    14. Bob Gibson
    15. Kid Nichols
    16.

    As per our usual, please consider everything. Counting totals, rate stats, relative stats, peak, longevity, special skills, awards/opinions, intangibles, team support/lack of support, special circumstances, time missed for war/injuries, etc.

    We are now ONLY voting for the 16th Greatest. Please submit your ballot with your next Top 5 Pitchers. As the winner of Round 15, Kid Nichols is now eliminated from further consideration. Negro Leaguers are eligible.
    Code:
    Here is how Round 1 broke down.---31 voters
    
    -----Johnson------Maddux--Matty-Alexander-Young---Grove---Clemens--Nichols-Spahn-Feller-Koufax-Seaver-Martinez-Rivera-N.Ryan
    1.----110 pts(22)---25(5)------0-----0-------5(1)-----10(2)-----0--------0-----0------5(1)-----0----0-------0-------0------0
    2. ---24(6)---------24(6)---16(4)---4(1)----12(3)-----28(7)----8(2)-------0-----0-------0----4(1)----0-------0-------0------0 
    3.-----6(2)---------15(5)----3(1)--18(6)-----9(3)-----18(6)-----0-------3(1)---6(2)-----0------0-----0-------0-------0-----6(2)
    4. -----2(1)--------10(5)----2(1)--10(5)----16(8)------8(4)----10(5)------0-----0-------0-----2(1)---0-------0-------0------0
    5.------0------------4(4)----1(1)---6(6)-----4(4)------4(4)------0--------0----1(1)----1(1)---2(2)--1(1)----1(1)-----2(2)----0
    Totals-142-----------78-------22----38-------46-------68-------18-------3-----7-------6-------8----1-------1-------2------6
    
    1. Walter Johnson - 142 (22)
    2. Greg Maddux - 78 (5)
    3. Lefty Grove - 68 (2)
    4. Cy Young - 46 (1)
    4. Pete Alexander - 38
    6. Christy Mathewson - 22
    7. Roger Clemens - 18
    8. Sandy Koufax - 8
    9. Warren Spahn - 7
    9. Bob Feller - 6 (1)
    11. Nolan Ryan - 6
    11. Kid Nichols - 3
    12. Mariano Rivera - 2
    13. Tom Seaver - 1
    13. Pedro Martinez - 1
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is how Round 2 broke down.---24 voters
    
    1. Greg Maddux - 78(11)
    2. Lefty Grove - 71(7)
    3. Cy Young - 58(2)
    4. Pete Alexander - 46(1)
    5. Christy Mathewson - 31(2)
    6. Roger Clemens - 20(1)
    7. Warren Spahn - 9
    8. Nolan Ryan - 7
    9. Bob Feller - 5
    9. Tom Seaver - 5
    9. Randy Johnson - 5 
    12. Pedro Martinez - 4
    13. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Mariano Rivera - 3
    15. Satchel Paige - 2
    16. Smokey Joe Williams - 1
    16. Kid Nichols - 1
    16. Curt Schilling - 1
    ------------------------------
    Fine Breakdown: Round 2:
    ------------------------------1st-----2nd-----3rd-----4th-----5th
    1. Greg Maddux--------------55(11)--20(5)----3(1)----0--------0
    2. Lefty Grove --------------35(7)---12(3)----18(6)---4(2)-----2(2)
    3. Cy Young-----------------10(2)---16(4)----18(6)--12(6)----2(2)
    4. Pete Alexander--------------5(1)--20(5)----12(4)---4(2)----5(5)
    5. Christy Mathewson----------10(2)-8(2)------6(2)---4(2)----3(3)
    6. Roger Clemens---------------5(1)--8(2)-----3(1)----2(1)---2(2)
    7. Warren Spahn-----------------0---4(1)-----3(1)-----0-----2(1) 
    8. Nolan Ryan--------------------0---4(1)------0------2(1)---1(1)
    9. Bob Feller---------------------0-----0-------0------4(2)---1(1)
    9. Tom Seaver-------------------0-----0-------3(1)--2(1)-----0 
    9. Randy Johnson----------------0-----0-------3(1)--2(1)-----0  
    12. Pedro Martinez---------------0----4(1)------0-----0-------0
    13. Bob Gibson-------------------0-----0-------0-----2(1)----1(1)
    13. Mariano Rivera---------------0------0------0-----2(1)-----1(1)
    15. Satchel Paige----------------0------0------0-----2(1)------0 
    16. Smokey Joe Williams----------0------0------0------0-------1(1)
    16. Kid Nichols-------------------0------0------0------0-------1(1) 
    16. Curt Schilling-----------------0------0------0------0-------1(1)
    
    Round 3:---19 voters
    
    1. Cy Young - 66(5)
    2. Lefty Grove - 57(5)
    3. Pete Alexander - 54(3)
    4. Christy Mathewson - 40
    5. Tom Seaver - 28(1)
    6. Roger Clemens - 18(2)
    7. Randy Johnson - 13(1)
    8. Satchel Paige - 8
    9. Bob Feller - 5
    9. Mariano Rivera - 5
    11. Warren Spahn - 4
    11. Nolan Ryan - 4
    13. Sandy Koufax - 3
    14.  Steve Carlton- 2
    14. Bob Gibson - 2
    16. Curt Schilling - 1
    16. Pedro Martinez - 1
    16. Rube Foster - 1
    
    Here's the breakdown.
    
    -----------------------1st------2nd-----3rd------4th------5th
    1. Cy Young----------25(5)-----20(5)----15(5)----6(3)------0
    2. Lefty Grove--------25(5)-----24(6)-----3(1)----4(2)------1(1)
    3. Pete Alexander-----15(3)-----16(4)----18(6)----4(2)------1(1)
    4. Christy Mathewson-10(2)-----16(4)-----3(1)----8(4)------3(3)
    5. Tom Seaver--------5(1)------4(1)------9(3)----6(3)------4(4)
    6. Roger Clemens-----10(2)-----4(1)-------0------2(1)------2(2)
    7. Randy Johnson------5(1)------0--------3(1)-----0--------5(5)
    8. Satchel Paige--------0--------0--------6(2)-----2(1)------0
    9. Bob Feller------------0--------0-------3(1)-----2(1)-------0
    10. Warren Spahn-------0-------0---------0-------2(1)------2(2)
    10. Nolan Ryan----------0------4(1)-------0-------0---------0
    13. Sandy Koufax-------0-------0---------3(1)-----0---------0
    14. Bob Gibson----------0-------0---------0-------2(1)------0
    14. Steve Carlton-------0--------0---------0------2(1)------0
    16. Pedro Martinez------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    16. Curt Schilling--------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    16. Rube Foster---------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 4.---21 voters
    
    1. Lefty Grove - 73(9)
    2. Pete Alexander - 61(4)
    3. Christy Mathewson - 48(2)
    4. Tom Seaver - 31(2)
    5. Roger Clemens - 28(3)
    6. Randy Johnson - 17
    7. Satchel Paige - 15
    8. Pedro Martinez - 13
    9. Joe Williams - 6
    10. Sandy Koufax - 5
    11. Warren Spahn - 4
    11. Bob Feller - 4
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Kid Nichols - 1
    14. Rube Foster
    
    Here's the fine breakdown.
    
    --------------------------1st----2nd-----3rd----4th----5th
    1. Lefty Grove-----------45(9)---16(4)---6(2)---6(3)----0
    2. Pete Alexander--------20(4)---24(6)---9(3)---6(3)---2(2)
    3. Christy Mathewson----10(2)----8(2)--24(8)---4(2)---2(2)
    4. Tom Seaver-----------10(2)---12(3)---3(1)---4(2)---2(2)
    5. Roger Clemens---------15(3)----0------9(3)---2(1)---2(2)
    6. Randy Johnson----------0------4(1)-----0----10(5)---3(3)
    7. Satchel Paige-----------0------8(2)----3(1)----0-----4(4)
    8. Pedro Martinez---------5(1)----8(2)-----0------0------0
    9. Joe Williams-------------0------4(1)-----0-----2(1)----0
    10. Sandy Koufax----------0--------0-----3(1)---2(1)----0
    11. Warren Spahn----------0--------0------0-----2(1)---2(2)
    11. Bob Feller--------------0--------0-----3(1)----0-----1(1)
    13. Steve Carlton----------0--------0------0-----2(1)----0
    14. Bob Caruthers----------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Kid Nichols-------------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Rube Foster------------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 5.  19 voters.
    
    1. Pete Alexander - 65(7)
    2. Tom Seaver - 50(6)
    3. Christy Mathewson - 39(2)
    4. Randy Johnson - 32
    5. Satchel Paige - 31(2)
    6. Roger Clemens - 21(1)
    7. Warren Spahn - 14
    8. Bob Feller - 7
    9. Kid Nichols - 6
    10. Pedro Martinez - 5(1)
    11. Joe Williams - 4
    12. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Sandy Koufax - 1
    -------------------------------------------- 
    The fine breakdown.  
    -----------------------1st----2nd----3rd---4th---5th
    1. Pete Alexander-----35(7)--24(6)---6(2)---0-----0
    2. Tom Seaver--------30(6)---8(2)---6(2)--6(3)---0
    3. Christy Mathewson-10(2)---8(2)--12(4)--8(4)--1(1)
    4. Randy Johnson-------0------8(2)--15(5)--6(3)--3(3)
    5. Satchel Paige------10(2)---8(2)---6(2)--6(3)--1(1)
    6. Roger Clemens------5(1)---8(2)---3(1)--4(2)--1(1) 
    7. Warren Spahn-------0-----4(1)---3(1)---0----7(7)
    8. Bob Feller-----------0-----4(1)----0----2(1)--1(1) 
    9. Kid Nichols----------0-------0----3(1)--2(1)--1(1) 
    10. Pedro Martinez----5(1)-----0-----0-----0-----0
    11. Joe Williams--------0-------0-----0---2(1)--1(1)
    12. Bob Gibson---------0-------0----3(1)--0-----0 
    13. Steve Carlton------0-------0-----0---2(1)---0
    14. Bob Caruthers------0-------0-----0----0----1(1) 
    14. Sandy Koufax-------0------0-----0----0----1(1)
    
    Round 6. ---20 voters.
    
    1. Christy Mathewson - 65
    2. Tom Seaver - 59
    3. Randy Johnson - 35
    4. Roger Clemens - 28
    4. Warren Spahn - 28
    6. Satchel Paige - 27
    6. Pedro Martinez - 27
    8. Smokey Joe Williams - 8
    9. Bob Feller - 6
    9. Kid Nichols - 6
    11. Sandy Koufax - 4
    12. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Mordecai Brown - 1
    
    The fine breakdown.
    -------------------------------1st-----2nd-----3rd-----4th-----5th-----Total
    Christy Mathewson-------------7(35)---4(16)---2(6)----2(4)----4(4)-----65
    Tom Seaver--------------------7(35)---3(12)---1(3)----3(6)----3(3)-----59
    Randy Johnson-------------------0-----5(20)---3(9)----2(4)----2(2)-----35
    Roger Clemens-----------------2(10)---1(4)----4(12)-----0-----2(2)-----28
    Warren Spahn-------------------0-----1(4)----4(12)---5(10)----2(2)----28
    Satchel Paige--------------------0-----3(12)---3(9)----3(6)-----0-------27
    Pedro Martinez-----------------3(15)---1(4)----1(3)----2(4)----1(1)-----27
    Smokey Joe Williams-------------0------0-------1(3)----2(4)----1(1)-----8
    Bob Feller----------------------1(5)----0--------0-------0------1(1)-----6
    Kid Nichols----------------------0------1(4)------0-------0-----2(2)-----6
    Sandy Koufax-------------------0------1(4)------0-------0-------0------4
    Bob Gibson----------------------0-------0------1(3)------0------0-------3
    Steve Carlton-------------------0-------0-------0-------1(2)-----0------2
    Bob Caruthers-------------------0------0--------0--------0-----1(1)-----1
    Mordecai Brown-----------------0-------0-------0---------0----1(1)-----1
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 7.---Round 7
    
    ---------------------1st-----2nd----3rd-----4th------5th-----Totals
    1. Tom Seaver------30(6)---24(6)--12(4)---2(1)----4(4)-------72
    2. Warren Spahn----10(2)---24(6)---9(3)--12(6)------0--------55
    3. Roger Clemens----35(7)----8(2)----0-----4(2)----6(6)-------53
    4. Satchel Paige-----20(4)---12(4)--12(4)----0-------0--------48
    5. Randy Johnson----5(1)----8(2)---15(3)---4(2)----2(2)-------34
    6. Pedro Martinez----5(1)----4(1)----3(1)----6(3)-----0--------18
    7. Bob Gibson---------0-----4(1)-----3(1)----4(2)---1(1)-------13
    8. Sandy Koufax------0-------0------9(3)-----0------1(1)------10
    9. Kid Nichols---------5(1)----0-------0------2(1)-----0---------7
    10. Bob Feller---------0-------0-------0------2(1)----3(3)-------5
    11. Nolan Ryan--------0-------0-------0------2(1)----1(1)-------3
    11. Steve Carlton-----0--------0------0--------0-----3(3)-------3
    13. Amos Rusie-------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    13. Ed Walsh---------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    13. Joe Rogan--------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 8.---Round 8.
    
    
    
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Roger		Clemens		9	1	2	5	0	65
    Randy		Johnson		1	4	7	1	2	46
    Warren		Spahn		2	5	4	1	1	45
    Satchel		Paige		3	6	0	2	1	44
    Pedro		Martinez	3	1	1	2	2	28
    Bob		Feller		0	0	1	3	5	14
    Sandy		Koufax		1	2	0	0	1	14
    Kid		Nichols		1	0	0	3	3	14
    Bob		Gibson		0	1	1	0	2	9
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	0	2	1	0	8
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 9.---Round 9

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Randy		Johnson		5	5	3	3	1	61
    Warren		Spahn		3	8	3	2	0	60
    Satchel		Paige		7	3	3	1	0	58
    Pedro		Martinez	4	3	2	3	1	45
    Kid		Nichols		1	1	4	1	7	30
    Bob		Feller		1	0	2	5	2	23
    Bob		Gibson		0	0	1	2	4	11
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	0	3	1	7
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	0	2	0	0	6
    Mariano		Rivera		0	1	0	0	0	4
    Sandy		Koufax		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	2	2
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Three Finger	Brown		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Carl		Hubbell		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 10.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Warren		Spahn		9	5	3	1	1	77
    Satchel		Paige		8	4	1	0	0	59
    Pedro		Martinez	3	3	3	1	1	39
    Bob		Feller		1	1	5	3	1	31
    Kid		Nichols		0	4	0	6	2	30
    Bob		Gibson		0	1	3	4	5	26
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	2	3	0	12
    Sandy		Koufax		0	2	1	0	1	12
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	1	2	0	0	10
    Carl		Hubbell		0	0	1	1	2	7
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	1	1	0	5
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	4	4
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Three Finger	Brown		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 11.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Satchel		Paige		10	4	1	0	0	69
    Pedro		Martinez	3	6	1	1	2	46
    Bob		Feller		3	2	6	0	3	44
    Kid		Nichols		3	1	4	2	4	39
    Bob		Gibson		0	2	2	6	3	29
    Carl		Hubbell		0	1	2	2	3	17
    Steve		Carlton		0	2	2	1	0	16
    Smokey Joe	Williams	1	1	1	0	0	12
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	0	1	1	7
    Three Finger	Brown		0	0	0	2	2	6
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	1	0	5
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	2	0	4
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 12.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Pedro		Martinez	8	3	0	3	1	59
    Bob		Feller		5	6	0	2	4	57
    Bob		Gibson		1	5	4	5	1	48
    Kid		Nichols		3	1	4	3	2	39
    Steve		Carlton		0	2	2	3	2	22
    Carl		Hubbell		0	0	5	1	1	18
    Smokey Joe	Williams	1	1	1	2	0	16
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	1	0	2	9
    Three Finger	Brown		1	0	0	0	3	8
    Tim		Keefe		0	1	0	1	1	7
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	2	0	0	6
    Bob		Caruthers	1	0	0	0	0	5
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 13

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Bob		Feller		6	2	3	3	3	56
    Bob		Gibson		3	4	4	2	4	51
    Kid		Nichols		5	1	3	3	1	45
    Carl		Hubbell		0	4	1	3	3	28
    Steve		Carlton		0	3	3	1	1	24
    Smokey Joe	Williams	2	1	2	0	4	24
    Sandy		Koufax		0	4	1	0	0	19
    Three Finger	Brown		2	1	0	1	1	17
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	2	1	1	9
    Nolan		Ryan		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Ed		Walsh		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Addie		Joss		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Bob		Caruthers	0	0	0	0	0	0
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	0	0	0
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	0	0	0
    Round 14
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Bob		Gibson		5	3	3	4	1	55
    Smoky Joe	Williams	6	1	3	3	1	50
    Kid		Nichols		3	4	3	0	2	42
    Steve		Carlton		1	3	3	0	3	29
    Carl		Hubbell		0	1	3	4	2	23
    Juan		Marichal	0	2	1	0	2	13
    Three Finger	Brown		1	1	1	0	0	12
    Sandy		Koufax		0	2	1	0	1	12
    Whitey		Ford		0	1	0	1	0	6
    Mariano		Rivera		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Nolan		Ryan		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Phil		Niekro		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	1	0	2
    John		Clarkson	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Johan		Santana		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 15
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Kid		Nichols		5	6	2	1	0	57
    Smoky Joe	Williams	5	3	3	2	0	50
    Steve		Carlton		6	1	3	1	3	48
    Carl		Hubbell		0	3	4	2	0	28
    Three Finger	Brown		2	0	2	1	1	19
    Juan		Marichal	0	2	0	2	3	15
    Whitey		Ford		0	1	1	1	2	11
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	1	1	0	9
    Nolan		Ryan		1	0	0	1	1	8
    Tim		Keefe		0	1	1	0	0	7
    Mariano		Rivera		0	1	0	1	0	6
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	2	1	5
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	0	1	3	5
    Phil		Niekro		0	0	1	0	1	4
    Addie		Joss		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Johan		Santana		0	0	1	0	0	3
    John		Clarkson	0	0	0	0	2	2
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Bullet		Rogan		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 09-25-2009, 07:04 AM.

  • #2
    Pitchers Form Chart:

    Pre - 1900: Tim Keefe, John "Monte" Ward, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Jim "Pud" Galvin, Mickey Welch, Sadie McMahon, Jim McCormick, Charlie "Old Hoss" Radbourne, Amos Rusie, Jim Whitney, Larry Corcoran, Clark Griffith, Al Spalding, Charlie Ferguson, Tony Mullane, Silver King, Bobby Mathews, Tommy Bond, Jim Creighton, Gus Weyhing, Jack Stivetts, Will White, Ted Breitenstein, Adonis Terry, Will White, Charlie Buffington, Bill Hutchison, Guy Hecker, Terry Larkin, George Bradley, Fred Goldsmith, Ed Morris, Dave Foutz, Toad Ramsey, Jim Devlin, Matt Kilroy, Ben Sanders, Elton Chamberlain.

    1900-1930: Rube Waddell, Mordecai Brown, Addie Joss, Ed Walsh, Eddie Plank, Joe McGinnity, Chief Bender, Ed Reulbach, Nap Rucker, Wilbur Cooper, Deacon Phillippe, Dazzy Vance, Stan Coveleski, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Ed Cicotte, Bill Dinneen, Ted Lyons, Eppa Rixey, Vic Willis, Hippo Vaughn, Dutch Leonard, Urban Shocker, Burleigh Grimes, Doc White, Nick Altrock, Sam Jones, Jack Coombs, Joe Wood, Jack Chesbro, Jim Bagby, Bullet Joe Bush, Waite Hoyt, Red Faber, Bob Shawkey, Ray Caldwell, Ray Collins, George Mogridge, Earl Hamilton, George Uhle, Eddie Rommel, Dolph Luque.

    1930-1960: Dizzy Dean, Carl Hubbell, Whitey Ford, Robin Roberts, Wes Ferrell, Bob Lemon, Lefty Gomez, Hal Newhouser, Red Ruffing, Bucky Walters, Early Wynn, Billy Pierce, Don Newcombe, Tommy Bridges, Lon Warneke, Mel Harder, Bob Turley, Harry Breechen and Bobby Shantz.

    1960-1980: Nolan Ryan, Gaylord Perry, Steve Carlton, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Phil Niekro, Jim "Catfish" Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Wilbur Wood, Don Drysdale, Jim Bunning, Mickey Lolich, Luis Tiant, Sparky Lyle, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, Bert Blyleven, Lew Burdette, Curt Simmons, Harvey Haddix, Johnny Antonelli, Vern Law, Bob Purkey, Johnny Podres, Joe Nuxhall, Ron Perranoski, Bob Veale, Dick Ellsworth, Jim Maloney, Chris Short, Bob Friend, Jim Palmer, Milt Pappas, Jerry Koosman, Dock Ellis, Sam McDowell, Jim 'Mudcat' Grant.

    1980-Present: Curt Schilling, Jack Morris, Kevin Brown, John Smoltz, Mike Mussina, Tom Glavine, Dave Stieb, Johan Santana.

    Negro Leagues:
    "Smokey Joe" Williams, (1905-1932)
    Wilbur "Bullet Joe" Rogan, (1917-1938)
    "Cannonball" Dick Redding, (1911-1938)
    Dave Brown, (1918-1925)
    Andrew "Rube" Foster, (1902-1926)
    Bill 'Willie' Foster, (1923-1938)
    Ray Brown (1930-1948)
    Hilton Smith (1932-1948
    Jesse 'Nip" Winters (1920-1933)
    Will 'Cannonball' Jackman (1925-1936)
    Jose Mendez (1908-1926)
    John Donaldson (1913-1934)
    Walter Ball (1903-1923)
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 10-08-2009, 06:25 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      My Slate of Candidates for this round. Numbers following indicate where Bill James ranked them in 2001.

      1. Smokey Joe Williams, 13
      2. Juan Marichal 21
      3. Mordecai Brown 15
      4. Nolan Ryan 24
      5. Addie Joss 80

      Next up.

      Amos Rusie 28
      Rube Waddell
      Sandy Koufax 12
      Steve Carlton 15
      Eddie Plank
      "Bullet Joe" Rogan (Neg L)
      Dazzy Vance

      Might I persuade any of you guys to consider voting in our other polls?

      11th Greatest Hitter

      42th Greatest Player

      Wagner/Mays?

      I would consider it a great favor if you did.
      Last edited by Bill Burgess; 01-19-2010, 12:07 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Steve Carlton
        Juan Marichal
        Smokey Joe Williams
        John Clarkson
        Mordecai Brown

        Keefe, Koufax, Hubbell, Phil Niekro are coming up

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Steve Carlton
          2. Smokey Joe Williams
          3. Robin Roberts
          4. Gaylord Perry
          5. Carl Hubbell

          Coming soon: Phil Niekro
          Originally posted by Cougar
          "Read at your own risk. Baseball Fever shall not be responsible if you become clinically insane trying to make sense of this post. People under 18 must read in the presence of a parent, guardian, licensed professional, or Dr. Phil."

          Comment


          • #6
            1 Ryan
            2 Koufax
            3 Carlton
            4 Rivera
            5 Ford

            Comment


            • #7
              1. Steve Carlton
              2. Carl Hubbell
              3. Juan Marichal
              4. Phil Niekro
              5. Sandy Koufax

              Right around number 20 I see a number of top candidates. In addition to my choice, Koufax, there are Mordecai Brown, Robin Roberts, Ford, maybe Perry, also guys like Vance and Palmer.

              As usual I don't know what to do with Negro Leaguers and 19th c. guys.

              Comment


              • #8
                Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown
                Carl Hubbell
                SJ Williams
                Juan Marichal
                Whitey Ford

                Comment


                • #9
                  Williams
                  Carlton
                  Hubbell
                  Roberts
                  Niekro
                  "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

                  - Alvin Dark

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1. Carlton
                    2. Hubbell
                    3. Williams
                    4. Marichal
                    5. Clarkson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1. Smokey Joe Williams
                      2. Carl Hubbell
                      3. Sandy Koufax
                      4. Steve Carlton
                      5. Juan Marichal
                      "(Van) Mungo and I get along fine. I just tell him I won't stand for no nonsense, and then I duck."
                      Casey Stengel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1. Mordecai Brown
                        2. Smoky Joe Williams
                        3. Bob Caruthers
                        4. Sandy Koufax
                        5. Nolan Ryan


                        Ryan the only player to be immortalized on a genuine US Mint coin
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by ItsOnlyGil; 09-28-2009, 03:02 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Little separates the accomplishments of Carlton, Niekro, and Perry as pitchers. By ERA+ Perry was a little better, about two points for his entire major league career (117) or for his best span of 4000 innings (125). Carlton was much superior as a batter (and Niekro clearly superior to Perry), which is the main reason I have dropped Niekro below Carlton this month.

                          Clarkson was the greatest pitcher before 1893 and 60'6". His ranking expresses my sympathy for all those umpires who didn't catch Perry up to any shenanigans.

                          1 Williams
                          2 Carlton
                          3 Niekro
                          4 Clarkson
                          5 Perry

                          Hubbell, Roberts, Ford, Marichal? I need to be convinced.
                          Last edited by Paul Wendt; 10-04-2009, 06:02 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paul Wendt View Post
                            Hubbell, Roberts, Ford, Marichal? I need to be convinced.
                            It would be worthwhile to know who you prefer to any of the above 4, and why, before any "convincing" is attempted.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1. Carlton
                              2. Perry
                              3. Ryan
                              4. Williams
                              5. Niekro

                              Next: Blyleven, Hubbell, Clarkson
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                              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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