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  • #31
    Originally posted by RuthMayBond
    & McGraw, gee they had such bad material to work with.
    One of the reasons McGraw was so successful is he was the best trader of his time. He never sat pat in winters, but traded constantly to strengthen his team.

    Bill Burgess

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    • #32
      1. Maury Wills. No contest.

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      • #33
        Anyone else care to offer their list?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
          We could use ANOTHER good laugh, so my approximate REVISED order is
          Glad to see you're not feeling listless today, Bill

          Cox
          McKechnie
          Alston
          Jennings
          Valentine
          Torre
          Weaver
          Houk
          Martin
          Lopez
          Anderson
          CGriffith
          Gardenhire
          Howser
          LHarris
          DGarcia
          BCarrigan
          GGibson
          PRose
          Franks
          Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
          Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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          • #35
            I am not a big Larussa fan, but his teams always seem to compete. The last three years, he has taken some of thos most injury-ridden teams in recent NL memory and competed - even winning a World Series. He has gone to three different franchises that were struggling, and soon after he arived, they were very good teams. What Larussa did in 2002, with the death of Kyle, and the subsequent problem of having no pitching, was remarkable. Does Larussa overthink? Yes! Has he been blessed with great players? Sure! Has he had 3 teams with over 100 wins get their rear-ends kicked in the playoffs by equal or less-than teams? Yes! But Larussa seems to get the most out of every player most years.

            I never thought I would be defending Larussa - but this is the second straight year the Cardinals are way overachieving-and about the 5thtime since he has been here. I wouldn't call him a "genius", and the fact that Knight and Billichek are good buds angers me , but I can't see how the 2-time WS champ is not in some people's top 20 managers.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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            • #36
              Davey Johnson
              Larry Dierker
              Ron Gardenhire
              Earl Weaver
              Lou Piniella
              Tony LaRussa
              Bobby Cox
              Sparky Anderson
              Jim Leyland

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              • #37
                Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                Glad to see you're not feeling listless today, Bill
                Listless?? Moi? Why my name and the word can never appear in the same sentence. I'm feeling quite in a working mode.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
                  Davey Johnson
                  Larry Dierker
                  Ron Gardenhire
                  Earl Weaver
                  Lou Piniella
                  Tony LaRussa
                  Bobby Cox
                  Sparky Anderson
                  Jim Leyland
                  Nice list. I see we woke up on the bold side of the bed today, Ubi. Or are you just feeling controversial?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                    Glad to see you're not feeling listless today, Bill

                    Cox
                    McKechnie
                    Alston
                    Jennings
                    Valentine
                    Torre
                    Weaver
                    Houk
                    Martin
                    Lopez
                    Anderson
                    CGriffith
                    Gardenhire
                    Howser
                    LHarris
                    DGarcia
                    BCarrigan
                    GGibson
                    PRose
                    Franks
                    My my. Half of your list would not survive popular consenus. You do realize that, don't you, Jeffrey.

                    Jennings won 3 early on but couldn't put together another winning combo though he had 2 of the L's superstars. McKechnie I have always liked but he had a record that proved that he couldn't win without the horses.

                    Clark Griffith was more known as a ML pitcher/owner, but his record as a manager was 'less than to be desired'. Rose played himself ahead of better players, so his managerial judgment must come in for questioning. Lopez I like too, and I also like Billy Martin, but member 538280 just hates him.

                    Always says he ruined his pitching staffs. And on and on. Keep working this list, Jeff. You can do better.
                    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 07-12-2008, 09:54 AM.

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                    • #40
                      I've never seen Connie Mack or John McGraw or any of the old timers manage. I have no idea what their real in game tactics were or how they used players. Secondly of the greats of old, like Mack and McGraw, they were different kind of a manager then today. They were the front office and a lot of times they weren't managers in a modern sense. McGraw was often gone from the dugout for large stretches of time during the season scouting players and such.


                      To me the attributes that need to be identified and measured for managers is in game tactics, player usage, player development, and managing of the players. Some of these things we can obviously identify in the old managers such as player signings and to some degree player development but I just don't know how much these old time managers are responsible for it and how much some old grizzled catcher or bench coach or ghost manager is responsible for it.

                      Obviously these men were great baseball figures and great "managers" of their day but to me it is like lumping in cricket players with baseball players when compiling the games greatest hitters. Apples and oranges.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
                        McKechnie I have always liked by he had a record that proved that he couldn't win without the horses.
                        Who can? ................

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
                          but to me it is like lumping in cricket players with baseball players when compiling the games greatest hitters. Apples and oranges.
                          Just keeps getting bolder and bolder. And more interesting too.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
                            My my. Half of your list would not survive popular consenus. You do realize that, don't you, Jeffrey.
                            Like I give a rat's

                            <Jennings won 3 early on but couldn't put together another winning combo though he had 2 of the L's superstars.>

                            He ain't the only one

                            <McKechnie I have always liked by he had a record that proved that he couldn't win without the horses.>

                            He did pretty darn good with ponies

                            <Clark Griffith was more known as a ML pitcher/owner, but his record as a manager was 'less than to be desired'.>

                            How so?

                            <Rose played himself ahead of better players, so his managerial judgment must come in for questioning.>

                            Perhaps, but he tended to do above expectations

                            <I also like Billy Martin, but member 538280 just hates him.

                            Always says he ruined his pitching staffs. And on and on.>

                            Only with Oakland

                            <Keep working this list, Jeff. You can do better.>

                            Likewise
                            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                              Like I give a rat's

                              <Jennings won 3 early on but couldn't put together another winning combo though he had 2 of the L's superstars.>

                              He ain't the only one
                              Hughie had also turned into an alcoholic at the end of his Detroit tenure.
                              Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                              McKechnie I have always liked by he had a record that proved that he couldn't win without the horses.>

                              He did pretty darn good with ponies
                              Bill won 4 pennants but he also came in below 4th place 14 times. So, I had to put him at the back end of my great managers. He was a great baseball man, but not in the upper echelons, for me anyhow.
                              Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                              Clark Griffith was more known as a ML pitcher/owner, but his record as a manager was 'less than to be desired'.>

                              How so?
                              It was during Clark's managerial tenure with Washington, that the saying went out, 'Washington - first in war, first in peace, and last in the American L.' That was during Walter Johnson's heyday.

                              Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                              Rose played himself ahead of better players, so his managerial judgment must come in for questioning.>

                              Perhaps, but he tended to do above expectations
                              Any manager who had better players, yet plays himself anyway, is not a team player. And the manager is supposed to be the ultimate team player. Rose cared more for his own stats & place in history, than he cared for his team winning. That's not my idea of a good manager, or even a bad one.

                              Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                              I also like Billy Martin, but member 538280 just hates him.

                              Always says he ruined his pitching staffs. And on and on.>

                              Only with Oakland

                              <Keep working this list, Jeff. You can do better.>

                              Likewise
                              You claim you want feedback, but when you get it . . .

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
                                McKechnie I have always liked but he had a record that proved that he couldn't win without the horses.
                                Tell me what the 66 Cubs did.
                                With Banks
                                AND Billy Williams
                                AND Santo
                                AND Robin Roberts
                                AND Jenkins
                                Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                                Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                                Comment

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