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Overshadowed Great Hitting Seasons?

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  • Overshadowed Great Hitting Seasons?

    What are some great seasons that you think might have been overshadowed?

    I'm not quite sure how to explain this, but for example:
    The 1905 GIants lineup had Mike Donlin, who hit .356 with a 167 OPS+ but was overshadowed by his famous teammate Mathewson (31-9, 230 ERA+).

    The 1961 Tigers had Norm Cash had a .366 average with a 201 OPS+ the same year as the M&M boys

    The 1927 Tigers had Harry Heilmann with .398 average, a 180 OPS+, finishing in 2nd place in OBP, 3rd in hits, and 3rd in RBIs, but is overshadowed by Gehrig and Ruth.
    Last edited by 1905 Giants; 03-11-2010, 05:38 PM.
    “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

    "Fill in any figure you want for that boy [Mantle]. Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

  • #2
    Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post

    The 1961 Tigers had Norm Cash had a .366 average with a 201 OPS+ the same year as the M&M boys
    I actually think it was Mantle who is overshadowed here. At least historically, from a 2010 perspective. Now days, we remeber Maris and Cash more so in 1961.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dgarza View Post
      I actually think it was Mantle who is overshadowed here. At least historically, from a 2010 perspective. Now days, we remeber Maris and Cash more so in 1961.
      Interesting perspective.
      “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

      "Fill in any figure you want for that boy [Mantle]. Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
        Interesting perspective.
        Well, Mantle was already known to be great, but Cash was such a fluke, it sticks in our memories.

        Comment


        • #5
          In 1941, the same season when Joe DiMaggio had his hitting streak and Ted Williams hit .406, the hit leader in the American League was Cecil Travis. The 218 hits that Travis had that year were the most of any player in the AL during the 1940's.

          Comment


          • #6
            Tony Gwynn's 1994 season overshadowed by the strike.

            Comment


            • #7
              All of the other good hitters on the 116 win Seattle Mariners in 2001, when Ichiro got all the credit and took the MVP. He was maybe the 4th best hitter on the team that season.
              My top 10 players:

              1. Babe Ruth
              2. Barry Bonds
              3. Ty Cobb
              4. Ted Williams
              5. Willie Mays
              6. Alex Rodriguez
              7. Hank Aaron
              8. Honus Wagner
              9. Lou Gehrig
              10. Mickey Mantle

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                I actually think it was Mantle who is overshadowed here. At least historically, from a 2010 perspective. Now days, we remeber Maris and Cash more so in 1961.
                The Yankee catchers were overshadowed here.
                Berra + Blanchard + Howard totalled 64 HRs in 1961.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ItsOnlyGil View Post
                  The Yankee catchers were overshadowed here.
                  Berra + Blanchard + Howard totalled 64 HRs in 1961.
                  Though only 2 of Berra's HR's came when he was catching, and 10 of Blanchard's 21 where hit when he wasn't catching.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ItsOnlyGil View Post
                    The Yankee catchers were overshadowed here.
                    Berra + Blanchard + Howard totalled 64 HRs in 1961.
                    Yogi only started 15 games behind the plate, started about half the games in LF. Howard was starting catcher in 106, Blanchard the rest. Howard also played a few games at 1B and Blanchard also played a few games in LF and RF. Still, if you looked at the actual numbers turned in by which ever one of the 3 was actually penciled in at catcher for the lineup, I'd bet they were pretty impressive over the entire season, although I'd doubt if it was close to 64 HR's at the position.
                    It Might Be? It Could Be?? It Is!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 64Cards View Post
                      Yogi only started 15 games behind the plate, started about half the games in LF. Howard was starting catcher in 106, Blanchard the rest. Howard also played a few games at 1B and Blanchard also played a few games in LF and RF. Still, if you looked at the actual numbers turned in by which ever one of the 3 was actually penciled in at catcher for the lineup, I'd bet they were pretty impressive over the entire season, although I'd doubt if it was close to 64 HR's at the position.
                      Of course your observations are true, but who even thought about the Yankee catchers - who were totally overshadowed by the M&M boys and others.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Cecil Cooper, 1980, led the AL in hits (219), RBI (122) & total bases (335) and batted .352. Overshadowed by George Brett flirting with .400.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My vote has to go to Rico Carty, who put up this line for the hapless 1970 Atlanta Braves:

                          .366/.454/.584 .......... 25 HR

                          Totally overlooked and forgotten.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ItsOnlyGil View Post
                            Of course your observations are true, but who even thought about the Yankee catchers - who were totally overshadowed by the M&M boys and others.
                            You know your being overshadowed when you're a full time catcher who posts a 153 OPS+ for the pennant winning team, yet you still finish only 10th in the MVP voting.

                            Yankee catchers hit 30 HR's that year, btw. .323/.377/.521 with 30 HR and 102 RBI. Not bad even for a year like 1961.

                            Blachard was quite the secret weapon that year. Only 275 PA's, but he made them count. 168 OPS+. Posted a 1.137 OPS in 32 PH chances. Hit .373 with runners in scoring position. Had a 1.200 OPS in "High Leverage" situations.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Some of the Greatest Hitting Seasons Ever: Listed according to OPS+.
                              Seasons pre-1920 are high-lighted in red, for convenience.
                              Code:
                              ----------------Rel.SLG-Rel.OBP--Rel.BA.-OPS+-INK--PCA-----WS--TPR
                              Bonds, 2002------1.94----1.74-----1.42---275---09--20.6----49--11.2
                              Bonds, 2001------2.03 ---1.54-----1.34---262---09--20.82---54--12.2
                              Bonds, 2004------1.91----1.82-----1.37---260---09--21.8----53--12.5
                              Ruth, 1920-------2.18----1.52-----1.32---256---16--28.83---51--10.0
                              Ruth,1921--------2.07----1.43-----1.29---239---16--24.79---53---9.8
                              Ruth, 1923-------1.96----1.55-----1.39---239---16--22.2----55--11.2
                              Williams, 1941---1.88----1.61-----1.52---235---16--22.1----42---8.8
                              Gehrig,1927------1.91----1.34-----1.30---221---07--17.17---44---9.1
                              Ruth, 1924-------1.86----1.43-----1.30---220---16--20.8----45---8.5
                              Mantle,1956------1.78----1.36-----1.35---210---18--22.96---49---8.8
                              Cobb, 1917-------1.78----1.39-----1.54---209---16--19.7----46---8.4
                              Hornsby,1922-----1.78----1.31-----1.37---207---23--20.37---42---9.2
                              Foxx,1932--------1.85----1.35-----1.31---205---14--18.54---40---7.2
                              Wagner,1908------1.77----1.38-----1.48---205---19--18.42---59--10.2
                              Brett, 1980------1.66----1.38-----1.44---202---07--12.43---36---7.4
                              Cash, 1961-------1.67----1.47-----1.41---201---07--17.30---42---8.3
                              Musial,1948------1.83----1.35-----1.44---200---20--20.30---46---7.3
                              Lajoie, 1901-----1.73----1.39-----1.53---200---23--18.94---42---7.4
                              F.Robinson, 1966-1.72----1.34-----1.31---199---18--16.48---41---6.8
                              Cobb,1911--------1.73----1.38-----1.53---196---22--20.74---47---6.4
                              Yaz,1967---------1.77----1.38-----1.38---195---21--16.81---42---6.5
                              J.Jackson, 1911--1.64----1.38-----1.49---193---00--17.13---39---6.8
                              T.Williams,1949--1.71----1.38-----1.30---192---19--17.24---40---6.6
                              Vaughan, 1935----1.55----1.48-----1.38---190---09--15.72---39---7.6
                              Delahanty, 1899--1.59----1.35-----1.45---189---16--16.36---41---5.4 
                              Speaker, 1912----1.62----1.39-----1.44---188---06--18.13---51---7.1
                              Morgan, 1976-----1.59----1.40-----1.25---187---03----?-----37---7.5
                              Kiner, 1951------1.60----1.36-----1.18---184---12--15.64---35---5.1
                              Aaron, 1959------1.59----1.24-----1.36---181---10--15.21---38---7.2
                              Sisler,1920------1.63----1.29-----1.43---181---08--15.40---33---7.6
                              Burkett, 1901----1.46----1.37-----1.40---181---11--15.21---38---5.8
                              Al Rosen, 1953---1.60----1.25-----1.28---180---14--15.33---42---6.5
                              Medwick, 1937----1.67----1.24-----1.37---180---24--17.47---40---5.2
                              Carew, 1977------1.40----1.35-----1.45---178---10--15.74---37---6.3
                              Hack Wilson,1930-1.61----1.27-----1.17---178---13--15.81---35---4.9
                              H.Duffy, 1894----1.59----1.42-----1.58---177---20--16.44---33---4.0
                              Simmons,1930-----1.68----1.20-----1.32---176---07--12.94---36---4.5
                              Wagner, 1900-----1.56----1.28-----1.36---175---10--16.05---34---4.3
                              Mays, 1954-------1.63----1.22-----1.30---175---08--12.11---40---6.8
                              Mize, 1937-------1.55----1.28-----1.33---172---00--14.95---34---3.3
                              Greenberg, 1937--1.60----1.29-----1.19---172---04--12.38---33---5.5
                              Babe Herman,1930-1.51----1.26-----1.29---170---00--16.26---32---3.5
                              Sisler, 1922-----1.49----1.34-----1.47---170---13--14.08---29---5.2
                              Clemente, 1967---1.52----1.28-----1.43---170---07--12.59---35---5.6
                              Snider, 1954-----1.58----1.26-----1.28---170---03--12.33---39---4.2
                              Zimmerman, 1912--1.54----1.22-----1.36---169---16--13.16---34---5.0
                              Morgan, 1975-----1.37----1.43-----1.27---169---02----?-----44---9.8
                              DiMaggio,1937----1.62----1.16-----1.23---168---07--12.78---39---5.9
                              Heilmann, 1921---1.48----1.24-----1.34---167---07--12.13---28---3.4
                              Reiser, 1941-----1.54----1.24-----1.32---165---13--10.22---34---4.7
                              Ott, 1929--------1.49----1.25-----1.11---165---02--13.15---31---5.2
                              Keeler, 1897-----1.39----1.31-----1.45---164---07--11.28---32---4.0
                              K.Williams, 1922-1.57----1.18-----1.16---164---08---8.95---30---4.3
                              Z.Wheat, 1924----1.40----1.27-----1.32---163---00--10.67---35---4.5
                              Crawford, 1911---1.46----1.29-----1.37---163---00--11.49---32---2.2
                              Klein,1930-------1.53----1.21-----1.27---159---06--14.17---28---5.6
                              O'Doul, 1929-----1.46----1.30-----1.35---159---07--11.83---31---5.1
                              J.Robinson, 1949-1.35----1.29-----1.30---159---06--12.22---36---6.5
                              Averill, 1936----1.48----1.20-----1.30---159---04--12.86---27---4.0
                              Rose, 1969-------1.38----1.34-----1.39---158---07--11.94---37---3.7
                              Terry, 1930------1.38----1.25-----1.32---158---07--14.46---32---5.5
                              J.Rice, 1978-----1.55----1.13-----1.20---158---17--10.08---36---4.0
                              Colavito, 1961---1.46----1.22-----1.13---157---01--10.10---33---4.0
                              P.Waner, 1927----1.42----1.28-----1.34---155---13--10.45---36---3.4
                              Manush, 1928-----1.44----1.20-----1.34---154---00--11.08---35---2.9
                              Oliva, 1964------1.45----1.14-----1.30---150---12---9.43---27---3.2
                              T.Davis, 1962----1.36----1.15-----1.32---148---11--11.70---36---3.6
                              Trosky, 1936-----1.52----1.05-----1.18---148---04---9.66---21---1.9
                              B.Williams, 1970-1.49----1.18-----1.24---147---07--11.88---29---3.5
                              Z.Wheat, 1925----1.30----1.15-----1.22---142---00--10.61---27---2.5
                              Gehringer, 1936--1.31----1.18-----1.22---142---02--10.37---34---5.9
                              KiKi Cuyler,1930-1.22----1.18-----1.17---133---03---9.82---29---3.0
                              Lindstrom, 1930--1.28----1.18-----1.25---132---00--10.78---32---4.7
                              J.Tobin, 1921----1.19----1.10-----1.20---119---02---8.24---25---0.5

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