Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Top "What Might Have Been" players in Baseball

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • this thread motivated me to lok up JR Richard, and he was certainly not as good as I remember. Yeah he was winning 18-20 games a year and getting a ton of strikeouts, but his results were not as dominating as one would expect. Even in his peak seasons his ERA+ was between 106-130, although when he went down he was in the midst of an awesome year..maybe he was finally putting it all together.

    I don't feel he would have been a HOFer even if he had stayed healthy, unless he was Randy Johnson in his 30s.

    Has Brandon Webb been mentioned yet? 33 pitching WAR in six seasons, three consecutive top 2 CY award showings, and then..poof he was gone.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by willshad View Post
      this thread motivated me to lok up JR Richard, and he was certainly not as good as I remember. Yeah he was winning 18-20 games a year and getting a ton of strikeouts, but his results were not as dominating as one would expect. Even in his peak seasons his ERA+ was between 106-130, although when he went down he was in the midst of an awesome year..maybe he was finally putting it all together.

      I don't feel he would have been a HOFer even if he had stayed healthy, unless he was Randy Johnson in his 30s.

      Has Brandon Webb been mentioned yet? 33 pitching WAR in six seasons, three consecutive top 2 CY award showings, and then..poof he was gone.
      Yeah - Brandon Webb was REALLY good. Jose Rijo was in the same mold.
      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

      Comment


      • IF Ron Kittle didn't have a bad back, he likely would have been at a minimum, a 400 HR career guy. Would have been tough to get to 500 due to his years working in the steel mill, which gave him a late start. One of the strongest players I've ever seen....and each swing gave him some pain, and he could still bomb long homers. The bad back hurt him in the field, on the bases, etc.

        As a side note, I think he only did one full year in the steel mills, but worked there in the off seasons. I think....
        Last edited by Toledo Inquisition; 09-14-2018, 08:24 AM.
        Since its that time of year
        Do they still play the blues in Chicago, when baseball season rolls around?
        When the snow melts away, do the Chi-Sox still play, in horribly named burial ground?


        Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

        Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

        Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BigRon View Post

          I was in Vietnam in 1970, Gullett's rookie season, with a kid who played high school ball against him. I remember him telling me that Gullett was going to be one of the greatest pitchers ever, blah blah. I remember thinking, right. Every hot shot high school pitcher looks like Lefty Grove to overmatched opponents.

          But, Gullett WAS very good. He could throw really hard, had a good slider. As I recall, he didn't have great endurance. He was terrific for 5 or 6 innings, then faded some. He had the advantage of playing for terrific Cincinnati teams, but he did his share.

          He hurt his arm or shoulder. Some said it was because of his pitching motion- I don't remember exactly what happened. I doubt he would have been a HOF pitcher, but he might have been. Like a bunch of other guys.
          Don Gullet scored 77 points in a high school football game
          This week's Giant

          #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

          Comment


          • Originally posted by willshad View Post
            this thread motivated me to lok up JR Richard, and he was certainly not as good as I remember. Yeah he was winning 18-20 games a year and getting a ton of strikeouts, but his results were not as dominating as one would expect. Even in his peak seasons his ERA+ was between 106-130, although when he went down he was in the midst of an awesome year..maybe he was finally putting it all together.

            I don't feel he would have been a HOFer even if he had stayed healthy, unless he was Randy Johnson in his 30s.
            Not that far fetched. Richard made great strides from 78-80

            This week's Giant

            #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

            Comment


            • Bo Jackson was a great football player and he had nice commercials, but he was far from an elite baseball player.
              This week's Giant

              #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BigRon View Post

                I was in Vietnam in 1970, Gullett's rookie season, with a kid who played high school ball against him. I remember him telling me that Gullett was going to be one of the greatest pitchers ever, blah blah. I remember thinking, right. Every hot shot high school pitcher looks like Lefty Grove to overmatched opponents.

                But, Gullett WAS very good. He could throw really hard, had a good slider. As I recall, he didn't have great endurance. He was terrific for 5 or 6 innings, then faded some. He had the advantage of playing for terrific Cincinnati teams, but he did his share.

                He hurt his arm or shoulder. Some said it was because of his pitching motion- I don't remember exactly what happened. I doubt he would have been a HOF pitcher, but he might have been. Like a bunch of other guys.
                The 1970's Cincinnati Reds were not an organization that understood or (more importantly) valued pitching.
                By now, most baseball fans know the story of Tommy John surgery. In 1974, John — a solid pitcher for a decade — blew out his elbow while pitching for Los Angeles against the Montreal Expos. “Blew out his elbow” is not a medical term, of course, but there was no need for medical terms...
                3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                Comment


                • Originally posted by willshad View Post
                  this thread motivated me to lok up JR Richard, and he was certainly not as good as I remember. Yeah he was winning 18-20 games a year and getting a ton of strikeouts, but his results were not as dominating as one would expect. Even in his peak seasons his ERA+ was between 106-130, although when he went down he was in the midst of an awesome year..maybe he was finally putting it all together.

                  I don't feel he would have been a HOFer even if he had stayed healthy, unless he was Randy Johnson in his 30s.

                  Has Brandon Webb been mentioned yet? 33 pitching WAR in six seasons, three consecutive top 2 CY award showings, and then..poof he was gone.
                  JR Richard was famous because he threw extremely hard, maybe harder than Nolan Ryan, and his back-to-back 300 K seasons. Back then a 300 K season was a seen as a "wow" season. They were very rare back then.
                  Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                  Comment


                  • The two players that keep floating to the top with me are Herb Score and Karl Spooner. IIRC, Joe Cronin, then general manager of the Red Sox, offered Indians GM Hank Greenberg one million dollars for Score's contract- just a few weeks before the accident with Gil McDougald. Both players were never the same again- McDougald retired a few years later at 32, leaving some good years on the table. If IIRC, Score never had a winning record after he came back. He was reunited with Al Lopez when he was traded to the White Sox in 1960, and Lopez put him to work with his good pitching coach Ray Berres, but Herb could never reclaim the magic and retired a couple of years later, on the scrap heap at age 29. I used to work late at night years ago, and on the way home, even though I lived in New Jersey, I would hear Herb doing Indians' games on WWWE. They just adored him in Cleveland.

                    I do remember the phrase, "Why wasn't Spooner brought up sooner!" He had an amazing year in Double A Fort Worth, where I believe he struck out 262 batters before being called up to the big club. IIRC, in his first game against the Giants, Dusty Rhodes said if he struck out, he'd kiss everyone on the bench. After Spooner fanned him, Rhodes was supposed to have said, "Well, you can just call me Liberace." LOL Spooner hurt his arm warming up in a spring training game in 1955, and he was never the same, bouncing around for a few years before he hung it up at age 27. Sad.

                    BTW, has anyone mentioned Pete Reiser yet? Oh, there was a player.... if he only hadn't run into so many walls his first couple of years.I always used to remember that they said about him, "They padded the fences for Pete Reiser."

                    Comment


                    • Brien Taylor -he messed up big time in that trailer fight. Never made to the Show.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mwiggins View Post

                        Here's a quote from a 1993 SI article about Gooden's decline, specifically about the loss of movement on his fastball...the part about him experimenting with other pitches by 1987 because he wasn't striking out as many as he had in '84 & '85 would suggest that he was losing something before he was arrested for drugs in Dec '86. Or at least he felt that he was. The massive drop in his K rate was from '84 to '85.
                        Stottlemyre, himself, was responsible for Gooden's decline. He started working with Gooden to pitch more to contact in 1985 to "conserve" his arm. He hit 100mph in 1990, but whatever Stottlemyre did with him mechanically ultimately couldn't be undone. The movement on his fastball was gone.

                        It was easy to place the blame on Gooden's substance abuse problems. The press was complicit in avoiding the mishandling. He was debatably the best pitcher in history right out of the box (records for FIP and K/9 as a 19 year old rookie). I'm glad I got to see it while it lasted.

                        Anybody mention Ron Necciai? He threw a no-hitter with 27 strikeouts in the Minors, but hurt his arm before he could succeed in the Majors. Reiser is a legend. The first half of Strawberry's career was almost identical to the first half of Reggie Jackson's. Strasburg's had a good career, but was better before the Tommy John surgery. Same with Matt Harvey. Feller would have much greater stature if he hadn't served in WWII. Same with Greenberg. In comparison, DiMaggio and Williams' legends weren't affected.

                        Eric Davis, Tommy Davis, Tony Conigliaro come to mind as big talents who were derailed by injury. Sisler, too, though he did enough to make the Hall of Fame; Trosky didn't. I'm sure there are many players who had enormous talent, but we never heard of them because they were hurt before they made the Majors. Brian Cole was killed before he could make the Majors; he was said to possess a unique combination of physical gifts and work ethic. It wouldn't surprise me if we were unaware of some of the most tragic stories.


                        "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                        Comment


                        • Tony Oliva was having a HOF career until the injuries just caught up to him.
                          Nomar Garciaparra, Dickie Thon, Don Mattingly.
                          Last edited by morpheus1776; 09-23-2018, 03:23 AM.

                          Comment

                          Ad Widget

                          Collapse
                          Working...
                          X