Announcement

Collapse

Updated Baseball Fever Policy

Baseball Fever Policy

I. Purpose of this announcement:

This announcement describes the policies pertaining to the operation of Baseball Fever.

Baseball Fever is a moderated baseball message board which encourages and facilitates research and information exchange among fans of our national pastime. The intent of the Baseball Fever Policy is to ensure that Baseball Fever remains an extremely high quality, extremely low "noise" environment.

Baseball Fever is administrated by three principal administrators:
webmaster - Baseball Fever Owner
The Commissioner - Baseball Fever Administrator
Macker - Baseball Fever Administrator

And a group of forum specific super moderators. The role of the moderator is to keep Baseball Fever smoothly and to screen posts for compliance with our policy. The moderators are ALL volunteer positions, so please be patient and understanding of any delays you might experience in correspondence.

II. Comments about our policy:

Any suggestions on this policy may be made directly to the webmaster.

III. Acknowledgments:

This document was based on a similar policy used by SABR.

IV. Requirements for participation on Baseball Fever:

Participation on Baseball Fever is available to all baseball fans with a valid email address, as verified by the forum's automated system, which then in turn creates a single validated account. Multiple accounts by a single user are prohibited.

By registering, you agree to adhere to the policies outlined in this document and to conduct yourself accordingly. Abuse of the forum, by repeated failure to abide by these policies, will result in your access being blocked to the forum entirely.

V. Baseball Fever Netiquette:

Participants at Baseball Fever are required to adhere to these principles, which are outlined in this section.
a. All posts to Baseball Fever should be written in clear, concise English, with proper grammar and accurate spelling. The use of abbreviations should be kept to a minimum; when abbreviation is necessary, they should be either well-known (such as etc.), or explained on their first use in your post.

b. Conciseness is a key attribute of a good post.

c. Quote only the portion of a post to which you are responding.

d. Standard capitalization and punctuation make a large difference in the readability of a post. TYPING IN ALL CAPITALS is considered to be "shouting"; it is a good practice to limit use of all capitals to words which you wish to emphasize.

e. It is our policy NOT to transmit any defamatory or illegal materials.

f. Personal attacks of any type against Baseball Fever readers will not be tolerated. In these instances the post will be copied by a moderator and/or administrator, deleted from the site, then sent to the member who made the personal attack via a Private Message (PM) along with a single warning. Members who choose to not listen and continue personal attacks will be banned from the site.

g. It is important to remember that many contextual clues available in face-to-face discussion, such as tone of voice and facial expression, are lost in the electronic forum. As a poster, try to be alert for phrasing that might be misinterpreted by your audience to be offensive; as a reader, remember to give the benefit of the doubt and not to take umbrage too easily. There are many instances in which a particular choice of words or phrasing can come across as being a personal attack where none was intended.

h. The netiquette described above (a-g) often uses the term "posts", but applies equally to Private Messages.

VI. Baseball Fever User Signature Policy

A signature is a piece of text that some members may care to have inserted at the end of ALL of their posts, a little like the closing of a letter. You can set and / or change your signature by editing your profile in the UserCP. Since it is visible on ALL your posts, the following policy must be adhered to:

Signature Composition
Font size limit: No larger than size 2 (This policy is a size 2)
Style: Bold and italics are permissible
Character limit: No more than 500 total characters
Lines: No more than 4 lines
Colors: Most colors are permissible, but those which are hard to discern against the gray background (yellow, white, pale gray) should be avoided
Images/Graphics: Allowed, but nothing larger than 20k and Content rules must be followed

Signature Content
No advertising is permitted
Nothing political or religious
Nothing obscene, vulgar, defamatory or derogatory
Links to personal blogs/websites are permissible - with the webmaster's written consent
A Link to your Baseball Fever Blog does not require written consent and is recommended
Quotes must be attributed. Non-baseball quotes are permissible as long as they are not religious or political

Please adhere to these rules when you create your signature. Failure to do so will result in a request to comply by a moderator. If you do not comply within a reasonable amount of time, the signature will be removed and / or edited by an Administrator. Baseball Fever reserves the right to edit and / or remove any or all of your signature line at any time without contacting the account holder.

VII. Appropriate and inappropriate topics for Baseball Fever:

Most concisely, the test for whether a post is appropriate for Baseball Fever is: "Does this message discuss our national pastime in an interesting manner?" This post can be direct or indirect: posing a question, asking for assistance, providing raw data or citations, or discussing and constructively critiquing existing posts. In general, a broad interpretation of "baseball related" is used.

Baseball Fever is not a promotional environment. Advertising of products, web sites, etc., whether for profit or not-for-profit, is not permitted. At the webmaster's discretion, brief one-time announcements for products or services of legitimate baseball interest and usefulness may be allowed. If advertising is posted to the site it will be copied by a moderator and/or administrator, deleted from the site, then sent to the member who made the post via a Private Message (PM) along with a single warning. Members who choose to not listen and continue advertising will be banned from the site. If the advertising is spam-related, pornography-based, or a "visit-my-site" type post / private message, no warning at all will be provided, and the member will be banned immediately without a warning.

It is considered appropriate to post a URL to a page which specifically and directly answers a question posted on the list (for example, it would be permissible to post a link to a page containing home-road splits, even on a site which has advertising or other commercial content; however, it would not be appropriate to post the URL of the main page of the site). The site reserves the right to limit the frequency of such announcements by any individual or group.

In keeping with our test for a proper topic, posting to Baseball Fever should be treated as if you truly do care. This includes posting information that is, to the best of your knowledge, complete and accurate at the time you post. Any errors or ambiguities you catch later should be acknowledged and corrected in the thread, since Baseball Fever is sometimes considered to be a valuable reference for research information.

VIII. Role of the moderator:

When a post is submitted to Baseball Fever, it is forwarded by the server automatically and seen immediately. The moderator may:
a. Leave the thread exactly like it was submitted. This is the case 95% of the time.

b. Immediately delete the thread as inappropriate for Baseball Fever. Examples include advertising, personal attacks, or spam. This is the case 1% of the time.

c. Move the thread. If a member makes a post about the Marlins in the Yankees forum it will be moved to the appropriate forum. This is the case 3% of the time.

d. Edit the message due to an inappropriate item. This is the case 1% of the time. There have been new users who will make a wonderful post, then add to their signature line (where your name / handle appears) a tagline that is a pure advertisement. This tagline will be removed, a note will be left in the message so he/she is aware of the edit, and personal contact will be made to the poster telling them what has been edited and what actions need to be taken to prevent further edits.

The moderators perform no checks on posts to verify factual or logical accuracy. While he/she may point out gross errors in factual data in replies to the thread, the moderator does not act as an "accuracy" editor. Also moderation is not a vehicle for censorship of individuals and/or opinions, and the moderator's decisions should not be taken personally.

IX. Legal aspects of participation in Baseball Fever:

By submitting a post to Baseball Fever, you grant Baseball Fever permission to distribute your message to the forum. Other rights pertaining to the post remain with the ORIGINAL author, and you may not redistribute or retransmit any posts by any others, in whole or in part, without the express consent of the original author.

The messages appearing on Baseball Fever contain the opinions and views of their respective authors and are not necessarily those of Baseball Fever, or of the Baseball Almanac family of sites.

Sincerely,

Sean Holtz, Webmaster of Baseball Almanac & Baseball Fever
www.baseball-almanac.com | www.baseball-fever.com
"Baseball Almanac: Sharing Baseball. Sharing History."
See more
See less

Why do we have closers again?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by George H Ruth View Post
    Even in that era, those starting pitchers faired pretty mediocre when the got to the 9th inning
    What do you base that conclusion on?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by deadball-era-rules View Post
      I will never have any more respect for closers or setup men than I do for DH fatties like Jim Thome or "Big Sloppy" Ortiz. Relief pitchers are merely can't-hack-it starters. I'd rather stack my team with eight quality starting pitchers than have five or six starters and three or four relievers. It would cost the same in terms of payroll and the pitching staff would be more durable. closers - are - bums.
      But closers are a "special breed of pitcher" who are put in the "most challenging position" of protecting a lead with the game on the line. Not everyone has the "mental toughness" to go out there and close ballgames. The parts I put in quotes are where I believe the talking heads on sports radio and television are allowing excrement to come out of their mouths.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by dominik View Post
        maybe this is because 1952 was a lower scoring era? If so I would think that a lead in a lower scoring environment is worth more than a lead in a high scoring era. Also today there are more weak teams because of expansion. this could somewhat have an influence.
        Not more weak teams. The distance from the mean as far as W/L% for teams has gotten less and less as the decades have rolled on.
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by davewashere View Post
          But closers are a "special breed of pitcher" who are put in the "most challenging position" of protecting a lead with the game on the line. Not everyone has the "mental toughness" to go out there and close ballgames. The parts I put in quotes are where I believe the talking heads on sports radio and television are allowing excrement to come out of their mouths.
          Oh they overuse those phrases sure, but you don't beleive they have any validity? Now "special breed" and "mental touchness" are referring to the same thing, so you're complaining about the same tihng twice. Not very efficient if you ask me.
          We have to conserve in these tough economic times and do with less.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by George H Ruth View Post
            Even in that era, those starting pitchers faired pretty mediocre when the got to the 9th inning


            1952 NL: 4.11 ERA 1st inning
            1952 NL: 3.24 ERA 9th inning
            1952 NL: 3.73 ERA

            2010 NL: 4.38 ERA 1st inning
            2010 NL: 3.67 ERA 9th inning
            2010 NL: 4.03 ERA

            1952 9th inning ERA is about 13% under average and about 21% under 1st inning ERA. 2010 9th inning ERA is about 9% under average and about 16% under 1st inning ERA.

            Comment


            • #21
              It would be better to report ERA for complete half-innings only. Some bottom-ninth halves are short of three outs, and more runs score with two outs than one, more with one runs with none.

              Comment


              • #22
                Sometime around 1980, there was a stat published that the Yankees (with Gossage) won like 80 0f 82 games in which they had the lead after 8 innings and every one truly went WOW. Then other teams were also looked at and the Yankees were not even the leader in this category and almost all teams had extremely similar stats. I remember this clearly, but not sure of the exact year but 1980 is a good guess.
                1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #23
                  During the 1980 playoffs, late in Game 5, the TV broadcast observed that Nolan Ryan had won something like 100 of 103 games with, I don't recall, perhaps a 3-run lead in the 8th inning. (Maybe it was any lead, but that seems exceptional to me, as does 80/82 in the 9th innings.)

                  Anyway, someone was providing such data, at least for game broadcasts.
                  Last edited by Paul Wendt; 12-11-2010, 11:44 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by deadball-era-rules View Post
                    I will never have any more respect for closers or setup men than I do for DH fatties like Jim Thome or "Big Sloppy" Ortiz. Relief pitchers are merely can't-hack-it starters. I'd rather stack my team with eight quality starting pitchers than have five or six starters and three or four relievers. It would cost the same in terms of payroll and the pitching staff would be more durable. closers - are - bums.
                    I half agree. I believe a starter's role is too demanding without any relief. Closers should be the guys who come in for the last two innings for a "two pitchers per game" rule (three if your starter is out before the fifth). I'd say your team gets more effectiveness out of relievers, who are stronger for a few innings, than making an eight-man rotation, whose strength drains from starting and relieving roles. In essence, it's easier to keep a team scoreless for two innings than it is in six.

                    I do agree with your dislike for our short-term, specialized bullpens. Having six relievers for six different scenarios is foolish. Paying someone 10 million dollars to come in once every three games to pitch an inning with a two-run lead is ludicrous. The specialization also takes away from the game's culture and interest. Bringing out the same guys every time for the same scenario gets old.

                    I hope the days of relief, as defined by the 60s-80s, one day reappear.
                    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Times change. Just face it. For better or for worse. The Closer is known to be the most difficult position due to the physological factors. Both Donnie Moore and Mitch Williams are testament of that. Oh, and also Ricky Vaughn shows this (in a ficitional situation nonetheless). All the pressure come up in the end. And remember, not all starters are fit to pitch at the end of games.
                      "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                      George Brett

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Let's blame Jeter. The SOB is at fault for so much already....
                        "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The simple hard cold fact of the matter is that we have Closers today because the starting pitchers are babied and unable to pitch many innings. These days a Starter goes 6 innings or so. Then we get the set-up men, lefty or righty or both, with the Closer coming in to 'close' it out.

                          The Starters are throwing so many pitches, nibbling around the plate, that thie pitch count is fairly high. Once they get around 100 pitches it's time to call for the bullpen.

                          I, too, saw a stat that indicates that teams were holding onto leads from the 8th inning on 40 or 50 years ago at the same rate they are today. Biggest difference is that the starters just don't go as far anymore.

                          I would like to see the Closer pitch at least 2 innings myself. I view Saves as a somewhat secondary, kind of 'invented' stat. Of course, being a Yankee fan, nothing can say 'That's it' than seeing Mariano Rivera enter the game.

                          Yankees Fan Since 1957

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
                            Yep, the players deserve all the scorn.

                            Tad buit harsh to call them bums, don't you think? And fatties? They may not have had your illustrious career and Adonis-like form, but they've done a heck of a job at what they've been paid to do.

                            We can't all be Mr. Wonderful, Mr. Wonderful.
                            At no point did I say anything about my own ability, Cold Nose. I couldn't pitch my way out of a paper bag, but that doesn't mean I can't evaluate the game. I don't assume that you are saying that you could do better if you are to say something about a player being overrated or anything else of that sort. What I am saying is that at a major league level, where the pitchers in the game are supposed to be the greatest in the world, it shouldn't impress peopl that much if a pitcher can throw one scoreless inning on a regularl basis. I believe that most good starting pitchers could be lights out closers. Mariano Rivera would be little more than a mediocre starter, but John Smoltz, when he moved to the bullpen, was absolutley dominant, because he didn't have to pace himself as much. Starters are more durable, and therefore, more dependable, and therefore, more skilled than relievers. That's why I have far less respect for closers, and don't think that anyone who is purely a closer deserves consideration for the Hall of Fame.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by apbaball View Post
                              Starters used to go much further of course, but I read in a book (which I cannot recall the title now) that the pitch count for a pitcher today is much higher for the same number of innings. Pitchers challenged hitters more in previous decades and as a result they threw far less pitches. Current pitchers must nibble more and as a result each batter sees more pitches. There were many suggestions for this...more players are HR threats as almost everyone now is capable of hitting 20 HRs partly and partly due to size as well as the sandbox new stadiums. Players are taught to work the count more. The stirike zone has shrunk somewhat as well.

                              I don't mind closers as much as the reliever comes in for one batter scenario repeated several times over the course on the same inning. The latter is the one I wish they could put limits on.
                              Christy Matthewson in PITCHING IN A PINCH mentions preparing himself for "100 pitches".

                              Nowadays that would be called pitching to contact.

                              The "closer' role is now taken by a man who would have been called a "fireman" from say 1960 to about 1977.

                              The big difference in the 21st. Century is that almost everyone takes out the starter according to pitch counts rather than by the score.

                              Increased use of middle relievers is one of the driving engines of high save totals and specialized closers.

                              Yes, apbaball I agree that the current stadiums have a role as well.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by deadball-era-rules View Post
                                At no point did I say anything about my own ability, Cold Nose. I couldn't pitch my way out of a paper bag, but that doesn't mean I can't evaluate the game. I don't assume that you are saying that you could do better if you are to say something about a player being overrated or anything else of that sort. What I am saying is that at a major league level, where the pitchers in the game are supposed to be the greatest in the world, it shouldn't impress peopl that much if a pitcher can throw one scoreless inning on a regularl basis. I believe that most good starting pitchers could be lights out closers. Mariano Rivera would be little more than a mediocre starter, but John Smoltz, when he moved to the bullpen, was absolutley dominant, because he didn't have to pace himself as much. Starters are more durable, and therefore, more dependable, and therefore, more skilled than relievers. That's why I have far less respect for closers, and don't think that anyone who is purely a closer deserves consideration for the Hall of Fame.
                                I was even more disappointed in your "DH" fatties comment. Jim Thome is not fat. Also, David Ortiz is one HELL of a good hitter. These men are tremendous at what they do... your point about closers was just as demeaning but fairly true - most good relievers are failed starters.
                                Originally posted by Cougar
                                "Read at your own risk. Baseball Fever shall not be responsible if you become clinically insane trying to make sense of this post. People under 18 must read in the presence of a parent, guardian, licensed professional, or Dr. Phil."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X