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I know I know just what we need another Black sox trial. But in this one lets try something different. Lets try and make this a warehouse of information on the black sox. Let us try and keep away from saying such and such happened therefore they are guilty and innocent and instead focus on the details. Whether they are credible or not. Whether or not they are actually true or theories and viewpoints that have been talked about so long that they have become the truth. If you wish to use some of these myths in a debate such as I think he is guilty because of myth #1 then please do so in another thread. We have many here on the Sox and anyone of them could house your argument without jumping topic. Let us just keep this to debating the myths.
I'll start it off with some of the myths:
1: Black Sox named because Comiskey wouldn't pay laundry bill, wanted players to, refused, uniforms got dirtier and dirtier press started calling them the Black Sox.
Now so far I haven't found any primary sources that can actually verify this view. The first instance of the phrase Black Sox and pertaining to this team is after the story of the fix broke. Doesn't mean it isn't right, I'm still waiting on a few contacts to come through but I think this story is dubious.
2: Joe Jackson asks to be benched before the series
Not saying it isn't true but where are the primary sources. If I am reading Carney right the first time this story surfaces is around 1960 and Joe has been dead for awhile. In neither the GJ testimony nor the 1924 trial does Joe Jackson say I asked to be benched. At no time I believe is their every an interview in which Joe says I asked to be benched. Only after he is dead does this story surface. According to Carney neither Asinof or Frommer could cite sources for their view on this, nor does Asinof either say or remember exactly where he read that Joe asked to be bench. He just encountered it somewhere.
3: Joe Jackson never touched the money once he got it
According to Kate Jackson own testimony it was used before the 1924 trial. If he donated money after his death it wasn't the 5,000 dollars he got from 1919 it was money he had. Kate send she spent money on Joes sister who was sick. Carney makes the assumption that it was all spent on his sister and none on themselves. Perhaps he has more information then he printed but from what he printed I cannot make that assumption.
4. Eddie Cicotte was snubbed out of a 30 win bonus by Comiskey who benched him at the end of the season to prevent paying him a bonus
For starters Eddie did have a chance to make 30 wins but he was unable to do so. Secondly the mysterious absence of the starts at the end of the year is explained by the fact that he hurt his arm. With even Eddie telling reporters that during and after the time off. It wasn't Comiskey benching him for those couple of weeks but Eddie's arm keeping him off the rubber. Secondly the bonus theory was not one that was told by Eddie. I can find no primary sources that actually have him saying that or the bonus theory being told around the time of the fix. Again it is a theory told much much later on. Finally and probably most convincing to me is the HoF has in its possession records that tracked players salaries. A recorded history of what they were being paid, by whom, for how long, and what the bonuses were. On Eddies record there is no record of a bonus ever existing in either 1917 or 1919 or in any other year.
5. Comiskey was a cheap SOB who paid his players peanuts
Comiskey in fact had the highest payroll in the game, a fact that Carney presents. He had 3 players who were the highest paid for their position in the game.
Feel free to add other myths you wish to discuss or discovered were not true. Things like the triples or attendance or "say it ain't so Joe" .
I'll start it off with some of the myths:
1: Black Sox named because Comiskey wouldn't pay laundry bill, wanted players to, refused, uniforms got dirtier and dirtier press started calling them the Black Sox.
Now so far I haven't found any primary sources that can actually verify this view. The first instance of the phrase Black Sox and pertaining to this team is after the story of the fix broke. Doesn't mean it isn't right, I'm still waiting on a few contacts to come through but I think this story is dubious.
2: Joe Jackson asks to be benched before the series
Not saying it isn't true but where are the primary sources. If I am reading Carney right the first time this story surfaces is around 1960 and Joe has been dead for awhile. In neither the GJ testimony nor the 1924 trial does Joe Jackson say I asked to be benched. At no time I believe is their every an interview in which Joe says I asked to be benched. Only after he is dead does this story surface. According to Carney neither Asinof or Frommer could cite sources for their view on this, nor does Asinof either say or remember exactly where he read that Joe asked to be bench. He just encountered it somewhere.
3: Joe Jackson never touched the money once he got it
According to Kate Jackson own testimony it was used before the 1924 trial. If he donated money after his death it wasn't the 5,000 dollars he got from 1919 it was money he had. Kate send she spent money on Joes sister who was sick. Carney makes the assumption that it was all spent on his sister and none on themselves. Perhaps he has more information then he printed but from what he printed I cannot make that assumption.
4. Eddie Cicotte was snubbed out of a 30 win bonus by Comiskey who benched him at the end of the season to prevent paying him a bonus
For starters Eddie did have a chance to make 30 wins but he was unable to do so. Secondly the mysterious absence of the starts at the end of the year is explained by the fact that he hurt his arm. With even Eddie telling reporters that during and after the time off. It wasn't Comiskey benching him for those couple of weeks but Eddie's arm keeping him off the rubber. Secondly the bonus theory was not one that was told by Eddie. I can find no primary sources that actually have him saying that or the bonus theory being told around the time of the fix. Again it is a theory told much much later on. Finally and probably most convincing to me is the HoF has in its possession records that tracked players salaries. A recorded history of what they were being paid, by whom, for how long, and what the bonuses were. On Eddies record there is no record of a bonus ever existing in either 1917 or 1919 or in any other year.
5. Comiskey was a cheap SOB who paid his players peanuts
Comiskey in fact had the highest payroll in the game, a fact that Carney presents. He had 3 players who were the highest paid for their position in the game.
Feel free to add other myths you wish to discuss or discovered were not true. Things like the triples or attendance or "say it ain't so Joe" .
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