Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

21st Greatest Pitcher

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 21st Greatest Pitcher

    Congratulations to Mordecai Brown, the immortal Cubs' 3-Fingered Brown, for winning our 20th Greatest Pitcher Poll! He scored 53 points from our 18 voters, including 6 first place votes.

    The following chase pack consisted of Sandy Koufax, my childhood idol and Nolan Ryan, my other idol. Sandy the Dandy picked up 44 points with 4 first place votes while The Ryan Express collected 29 points and 1 first place vote.

    The 21st round for Greatest Pitcher series is now open. Round 21 will end when Jud (AstrosFan), our Official Tally Master technician and Decision Caller, calls it.

    1. Walter Johnson
    2. Greg Maddux
    3. Cy Young
    4. Lefty Grove
    5. Pete Alexander
    6. Christy Mathewson
    7. Tom Seaver
    8. Roger Clemens
    9. Randy Johnson
    10. Warren Spahn
    11. Satchel Paige
    12. Pedro Martinez
    13. Bob Feller
    14. Bob Gibson
    15. Kid Nichols
    16. Steve Carlton
    17. Smokey Joe Williams
    18. Carl Hubbell
    19. Juan Marichal
    20. Mordecai Brown
    21.

    As per our usual, please consider everything. Counting totals, rate stats, relative stats, peak, longevity, special skills, awards/opinions, intangibles, team support/lack of support, special circumstances, time missed for war/injuries, etc.

    We are now ONLY voting for the 21th Greatest. Please submit your ballot with your next Top 5 Pitchers, and 5 Honorable Mentions, if you would. That would help us out. Thanks for cooperating in this process. As the winner of Round 20, Mordecai Brown is now eliminated from further consideration. Negro Leaguers are eligible.
    Code:
    Here is how Round 1 broke down.---31 voters
    
    -----Johnson------Maddux--Matty-Alexander-Young---Grove---Clemens--Nichols-Spahn-Feller-Koufax-Seaver-Martinez-Rivera-N.Ryan
    1.----110 pts(22)---25(5)------0-----0-------5(1)-----10(2)-----0--------0-----0------5(1)-----0----0-------0-------0------0
    2. ---24(6)---------24(6)---16(4)---4(1)----12(3)-----28(7)----8(2)-------0-----0-------0----4(1)----0-------0-------0------0 
    3.-----6(2)---------15(5)----3(1)--18(6)-----9(3)-----18(6)-----0-------3(1)---6(2)-----0------0-----0-------0-------0-----6(2)
    4. -----2(1)--------10(5)----2(1)--10(5)----16(8)------8(4)----10(5)------0-----0-------0-----2(1)---0-------0-------0------0
    5.------0------------4(4)----1(1)---6(6)-----4(4)------4(4)------0--------0----1(1)----1(1)---2(2)--1(1)----1(1)-----2(2)----0
    Totals-142-----------78-------22----38-------46-------68-------18-------3-----7-------6-------8----1-------1-------2------6
    
    1. Walter Johnson - 142 (22)
    2. Greg Maddux - 78 (5)
    3. Lefty Grove - 68 (2)
    4. Cy Young - 46 (1)
    4. Pete Alexander - 38
    6. Christy Mathewson - 22
    7. Roger Clemens - 18
    8. Sandy Koufax - 8
    9. Warren Spahn - 7
    9. Bob Feller - 6 (1)
    11. Nolan Ryan - 6
    11. Kid Nichols - 3
    12. Mariano Rivera - 2
    13. Tom Seaver - 1
    13. Pedro Martinez - 1
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is how Round 2 broke down.---24 voters
    
    1. Greg Maddux - 78(11)
    2. Lefty Grove - 71(7)
    3. Cy Young - 58(2)
    4. Pete Alexander - 46(1)
    5. Christy Mathewson - 31(2)
    6. Roger Clemens - 20(1)
    7. Warren Spahn - 9
    8. Nolan Ryan - 7
    9. Bob Feller - 5
    9. Tom Seaver - 5
    9. Randy Johnson - 5 
    12. Pedro Martinez - 4
    13. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Mariano Rivera - 3
    15. Satchel Paige - 2
    16. Smokey Joe Williams - 1
    16. Kid Nichols - 1
    16. Curt Schilling - 1
    ------------------------------
    Fine Breakdown: Round 2:
    ------------------------------1st-----2nd-----3rd-----4th-----5th
    1. Greg Maddux--------------55(11)--20(5)----3(1)----0--------0
    2. Lefty Grove --------------35(7)---12(3)----18(6)---4(2)-----2(2)
    3. Cy Young-----------------10(2)---16(4)----18(6)--12(6)----2(2)
    4. Pete Alexander--------------5(1)--20(5)----12(4)---4(2)----5(5)
    5. Christy Mathewson----------10(2)-8(2)------6(2)---4(2)----3(3)
    6. Roger Clemens---------------5(1)--8(2)-----3(1)----2(1)---2(2)
    7. Warren Spahn-----------------0---4(1)-----3(1)-----0-----2(1) 
    8. Nolan Ryan--------------------0---4(1)------0------2(1)---1(1)
    9. Bob Feller---------------------0-----0-------0------4(2)---1(1)
    9. Tom Seaver-------------------0-----0-------3(1)--2(1)-----0 
    9. Randy Johnson----------------0-----0-------3(1)--2(1)-----0  
    12. Pedro Martinez---------------0----4(1)------0-----0-------0
    13. Bob Gibson-------------------0-----0-------0-----2(1)----1(1)
    13. Mariano Rivera---------------0------0------0-----2(1)-----1(1)
    15. Satchel Paige----------------0------0------0-----2(1)------0 
    16. Smokey Joe Williams----------0------0------0------0-------1(1)
    16. Kid Nichols-------------------0------0------0------0-------1(1) 
    16. Curt Schilling-----------------0------0------0------0-------1(1)
    
    Round 3:---19 voters
    
    1. Cy Young - 66(5)
    2. Lefty Grove - 57(5)
    3. Pete Alexander - 54(3)
    4. Christy Mathewson - 40
    5. Tom Seaver - 28(1)
    6. Roger Clemens - 18(2)
    7. Randy Johnson - 13(1)
    8. Satchel Paige - 8
    9. Bob Feller - 5
    9. Mariano Rivera - 5
    11. Warren Spahn - 4
    11. Nolan Ryan - 4
    13. Sandy Koufax - 3
    14.  Steve Carlton- 2
    14. Bob Gibson - 2
    16. Curt Schilling - 1
    16. Pedro Martinez - 1
    16. Rube Foster - 1
    
    Here's the breakdown.
    
    -----------------------1st------2nd-----3rd------4th------5th
    1. Cy Young----------25(5)-----20(5)----15(5)----6(3)------0
    2. Lefty Grove--------25(5)-----24(6)-----3(1)----4(2)------1(1)
    3. Pete Alexander-----15(3)-----16(4)----18(6)----4(2)------1(1)
    4. Christy Mathewson-10(2)-----16(4)-----3(1)----8(4)------3(3)
    5. Tom Seaver--------5(1)------4(1)------9(3)----6(3)------4(4)
    6. Roger Clemens-----10(2)-----4(1)-------0------2(1)------2(2)
    7. Randy Johnson------5(1)------0--------3(1)-----0--------5(5)
    8. Satchel Paige--------0--------0--------6(2)-----2(1)------0
    9. Bob Feller------------0--------0-------3(1)-----2(1)-------0
    10. Warren Spahn-------0-------0---------0-------2(1)------2(2)
    10. Nolan Ryan----------0------4(1)-------0-------0---------0
    13. Sandy Koufax-------0-------0---------3(1)-----0---------0
    14. Bob Gibson----------0-------0---------0-------2(1)------0
    14. Steve Carlton-------0--------0---------0------2(1)------0
    16. Pedro Martinez------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    16. Curt Schilling--------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    16. Rube Foster---------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 4.---21 voters
    
    1. Lefty Grove - 73(9)
    2. Pete Alexander - 61(4)
    3. Christy Mathewson - 48(2)
    4. Tom Seaver - 31(2)
    5. Roger Clemens - 28(3)
    6. Randy Johnson - 17
    7. Satchel Paige - 15
    8. Pedro Martinez - 13
    9. Joe Williams - 6
    10. Sandy Koufax - 5
    11. Warren Spahn - 4
    11. Bob Feller - 4
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Kid Nichols - 1
    14. Rube Foster
    
    Here's the fine breakdown.
    
    --------------------------1st----2nd-----3rd----4th----5th
    1. Lefty Grove-----------45(9)---16(4)---6(2)---6(3)----0
    2. Pete Alexander--------20(4)---24(6)---9(3)---6(3)---2(2)
    3. Christy Mathewson----10(2)----8(2)--24(8)---4(2)---2(2)
    4. Tom Seaver-----------10(2)---12(3)---3(1)---4(2)---2(2)
    5. Roger Clemens---------15(3)----0------9(3)---2(1)---2(2)
    6. Randy Johnson----------0------4(1)-----0----10(5)---3(3)
    7. Satchel Paige-----------0------8(2)----3(1)----0-----4(4)
    8. Pedro Martinez---------5(1)----8(2)-----0------0------0
    9. Joe Williams-------------0------4(1)-----0-----2(1)----0
    10. Sandy Koufax----------0--------0-----3(1)---2(1)----0
    11. Warren Spahn----------0--------0------0-----2(1)---2(2)
    11. Bob Feller--------------0--------0-----3(1)----0-----1(1)
    13. Steve Carlton----------0--------0------0-----2(1)----0
    14. Bob Caruthers----------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Kid Nichols-------------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Rube Foster------------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 5.  19 voters.
    
    1. Pete Alexander - 65(7)
    2. Tom Seaver - 50(6)
    3. Christy Mathewson - 39(2)
    4. Randy Johnson - 32
    5. Satchel Paige - 31(2)
    6. Roger Clemens - 21(1)
    7. Warren Spahn - 14
    8. Bob Feller - 7
    9. Kid Nichols - 6
    10. Pedro Martinez - 5(1)
    11. Joe Williams - 4
    12. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Sandy Koufax - 1
    -------------------------------------------- 
    The fine breakdown.  
    -----------------------1st----2nd----3rd---4th---5th
    1. Pete Alexander-----35(7)--24(6)---6(2)---0-----0
    2. Tom Seaver--------30(6)---8(2)---6(2)--6(3)---0
    3. Christy Mathewson-10(2)---8(2)--12(4)--8(4)--1(1)
    4. Randy Johnson-------0------8(2)--15(5)--6(3)--3(3)
    5. Satchel Paige------10(2)---8(2)---6(2)--6(3)--1(1)
    6. Roger Clemens------5(1)---8(2)---3(1)--4(2)--1(1) 
    7. Warren Spahn-------0-----4(1)---3(1)---0----7(7)
    8. Bob Feller-----------0-----4(1)----0----2(1)--1(1) 
    9. Kid Nichols----------0-------0----3(1)--2(1)--1(1) 
    10. Pedro Martinez----5(1)-----0-----0-----0-----0
    11. Joe Williams--------0-------0-----0---2(1)--1(1)
    12. Bob Gibson---------0-------0----3(1)--0-----0 
    13. Steve Carlton------0-------0-----0---2(1)---0
    14. Bob Caruthers------0-------0-----0----0----1(1) 
    14. Sandy Koufax-------0------0-----0----0----1(1)
    
    Round 6. ---20 voters.
    
    1. Christy Mathewson - 65
    2. Tom Seaver - 59
    3. Randy Johnson - 35
    4. Roger Clemens - 28
    4. Warren Spahn - 28
    6. Satchel Paige - 27
    6. Pedro Martinez - 27
    8. Smokey Joe Williams - 8
    9. Bob Feller - 6
    9. Kid Nichols - 6
    11. Sandy Koufax - 4
    12. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Mordecai Brown - 1
    
    The fine breakdown.
    -------------------------------1st-----2nd-----3rd-----4th-----5th-----Total
    Christy Mathewson-------------7(35)---4(16)---2(6)----2(4)----4(4)-----65
    Tom Seaver--------------------7(35)---3(12)---1(3)----3(6)----3(3)-----59
    Randy Johnson-------------------0-----5(20)---3(9)----2(4)----2(2)-----35
    Roger Clemens-----------------2(10)---1(4)----4(12)-----0-----2(2)-----28
    Warren Spahn-------------------0-----1(4)----4(12)---5(10)----2(2)----28
    Satchel Paige--------------------0-----3(12)---3(9)----3(6)-----0-------27
    Pedro Martinez-----------------3(15)---1(4)----1(3)----2(4)----1(1)-----27
    Smokey Joe Williams-------------0------0-------1(3)----2(4)----1(1)-----8
    Bob Feller----------------------1(5)----0--------0-------0------1(1)-----6
    Kid Nichols----------------------0------1(4)------0-------0-----2(2)-----6
    Sandy Koufax-------------------0------1(4)------0-------0-------0------4
    Bob Gibson----------------------0-------0------1(3)------0------0-------3
    Steve Carlton-------------------0-------0-------0-------1(2)-----0------2
    Bob Caruthers-------------------0------0--------0--------0-----1(1)-----1
    Mordecai Brown-----------------0-------0-------0---------0----1(1)-----1
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 7.---Round 7
    
    ---------------------1st-----2nd----3rd-----4th------5th-----Totals
    1. Tom Seaver------30(6)---24(6)--12(4)---2(1)----4(4)-------72
    2. Warren Spahn----10(2)---24(6)---9(3)--12(6)------0--------55
    3. Roger Clemens----35(7)----8(2)----0-----4(2)----6(6)-------53
    4. Satchel Paige-----20(4)---12(4)--12(4)----0-------0--------48
    5. Randy Johnson----5(1)----8(2)---15(3)---4(2)----2(2)-------34
    6. Pedro Martinez----5(1)----4(1)----3(1)----6(3)-----0--------18
    7. Bob Gibson---------0-----4(1)-----3(1)----4(2)---1(1)-------13
    8. Sandy Koufax------0-------0------9(3)-----0------1(1)------10
    9. Kid Nichols---------5(1)----0-------0------2(1)-----0---------7
    10. Bob Feller---------0-------0-------0------2(1)----3(3)-------5
    11. Nolan Ryan--------0-------0-------0------2(1)----1(1)-------3
    11. Steve Carlton-----0--------0------0--------0-----3(3)-------3
    13. Amos Rusie-------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    13. Ed Walsh---------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    13. Joe Rogan--------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 8.---Round 8.
    
    
    
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Roger		Clemens		9	1	2	5	0	65
    Randy		Johnson		1	4	7	1	2	46
    Warren		Spahn		2	5	4	1	1	45
    Satchel		Paige		3	6	0	2	1	44
    Pedro		Martinez	3	1	1	2	2	28
    Bob		Feller		0	0	1	3	5	14
    Sandy		Koufax		1	2	0	0	1	14
    Kid		Nichols		1	0	0	3	3	14
    Bob		Gibson		0	1	1	0	2	9
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	0	2	1	0	8
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 9.---Round 9

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Randy		Johnson		5	5	3	3	1	61
    Warren		Spahn		3	8	3	2	0	60
    Satchel		Paige		7	3	3	1	0	58
    Pedro		Martinez	4	3	2	3	1	45
    Kid		Nichols		1	1	4	1	7	30
    Bob		Feller		1	0	2	5	2	23
    Bob		Gibson		0	0	1	2	4	11
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	0	3	1	7
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	0	2	0	0	6
    Mariano		Rivera		0	1	0	0	0	4
    Sandy		Koufax		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	2	2
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Three Finger	Brown		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Carl		Hubbell		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 10.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Warren		Spahn		9	5	3	1	1	77
    Satchel		Paige		8	4	1	0	0	59
    Pedro		Martinez	3	3	3	1	1	39
    Bob		Feller		1	1	5	3	1	31
    Kid		Nichols		0	4	0	6	2	30
    Bob		Gibson		0	1	3	4	5	26
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	2	3	0	12
    Sandy		Koufax		0	2	1	0	1	12
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	1	2	0	0	10
    Carl		Hubbell		0	0	1	1	2	7
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	1	1	0	5
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	4	4
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Three Finger	Brown		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 11.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Satchel		Paige		10	4	1	0	0	69
    Pedro		Martinez	3	6	1	1	2	46
    Bob		Feller		3	2	6	0	3	44
    Kid		Nichols		3	1	4	2	4	39
    Bob		Gibson		0	2	2	6	3	29
    Carl		Hubbell		0	1	2	2	3	17
    Steve		Carlton		0	2	2	1	0	16
    Smokey Joe	Williams	1	1	1	0	0	12
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	0	1	1	7
    Three Finger	Brown		0	0	0	2	2	6
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	1	0	5
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	2	0	4
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 12.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Pedro		Martinez	8	3	0	3	1	59
    Bob		Feller		5	6	0	2	4	57
    Bob		Gibson		1	5	4	5	1	48
    Kid		Nichols		3	1	4	3	2	39
    Steve		Carlton		0	2	2	3	2	22
    Carl		Hubbell		0	0	5	1	1	18
    Smokey Joe	Williams	1	1	1	2	0	16
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	1	0	2	9
    Three Finger	Brown		1	0	0	0	3	8
    Tim		Keefe		0	1	0	1	1	7
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	2	0	0	6
    Bob		Caruthers	1	0	0	0	0	5
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 13

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Bob		Feller		6	2	3	3	3	56
    Bob		Gibson		3	4	4	2	4	51
    Kid		Nichols		5	1	3	3	1	45
    Carl		Hubbell		0	4	1	3	3	28
    Steve		Carlton		0	3	3	1	1	24
    Smokey Joe	Williams	2	1	2	0	4	24
    Sandy		Koufax		0	4	1	0	0	19
    Three Finger	Brown		2	1	0	1	1	17
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	2	1	1	9
    Nolan		Ryan		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Ed		Walsh		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Addie		Joss		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Bob		Caruthers	0	0	0	0	0	0
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	0	0	0
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	0	0	0
    Round 14
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Bob		Gibson		5	3	3	4	1	55
    Smoky Joe	Williams	6	1	3	3	1	50
    Kid		Nichols		3	4	3	0	2	42
    Steve		Carlton		1	3	3	0	3	29
    Carl		Hubbell		0	1	3	4	2	23
    Juan		Marichal	0	2	1	0	2	13
    Three Finger	Brown		1	1	1	0	0	12
    Sandy		Koufax		0	2	1	0	1	12
    Whitey		Ford		0	1	0	1	0	6
    Mariano		Rivera		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Nolan		Ryan		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Phil		Niekro		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	1	0	2
    John		Clarkson	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Johan		Santana		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 15
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Kid		Nichols		5	6	2	1	0	57
    Smoky Joe	Williams	5	3	3	2	0	50
    Steve		Carlton		6	1	3	1	3	48
    Carl		Hubbell		0	3	4	2	0	28
    Three Finger	Brown		2	0	2	1	1	19
    Juan		Marichal	0	2	0	2	3	15
    Whitey		Ford		0	1	1	1	2	11
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	1	1	0	9
    Nolan		Ryan		1	0	0	1	1	8
    Tim		Keefe		0	1	1	0	0	7
    Mariano		Rivera		0	1	0	1	0	6
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	2	1	5
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	0	1	3	5
    Phil		Niekro		0	0	1	0	1	4
    Addie		Joss		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Johan		Santana		0	0	1	0	0	3
    John		Clarkson	0	0	0	0	2	2
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Bullet		Rogan		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round16
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Steve		Carlton		7	5	1	2	0	62
    Smoky Joe	Williams	7	2	4	1	1	58
    Carl		Hubbell		0	5	3	0	1	30
    Three Finger	Brown		3	1	1	2	2	28
    Juan		Marichal	0	3	2	2	3	25
    Nolan		Ryan		2	0	1	2	1	18
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	1	2	1	12
    Phil		Niekro		0	0	2	1	2	10
    Gaylord		Perry		0	1	0	1	2	8
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	1	2	0	7
    John		Clarkson	0	0	0	2	1	5
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	1	0	2	5
    Bob		Caruthers	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Addie		Joss		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 17

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Smoky Joe	Williams	8	3	2	0	0	58
    Carl		Hubbell		2	6	4	1	2	50
    Sandy		Koufax		4	3	1	2	0	39
    Three Finger	Brown		2	4	2	1	0	34
    Juan		Marichal	2	1	1	5	3	30
    Phil		Niekro		0	2	1	1	1	14
    Gaylord		Perry		1	0	1	2	1	13
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	3	0	1	10
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	2	3	7
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	0	2	3	7
    John		Clarkson	0	0	2	0	0	6
    Ed		Walsh		0	0	0	1	2	4
    Charles		Radbourn	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Hoyt		Wilhelm		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Carl		Mays		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Dazzy		Vance		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Addie		Joss		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 18
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Carl		Hubbell		6	2	2	0	0	44
    Juan		Marichal	3	1	3	1	1	31
    Sandy		Koufax		3	2	0	2	1	28
    Three Finger	Brown		2	3	1	0	1	26
    Robin		Roberts		0	2	1	1	2	15
    Phil		Niekro		0	2	1	1	1	14
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	2	2	0	10
    John		Clarkson	0	1	1	0	0	7
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	1	2	7
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	1	2	4
    Addie		Joss		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Al		Spalding	0	1	0	0	0	4
    Charles		Radbourn	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Ed		Walsh		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Hoyt		Wilhelm		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Carl		Mays		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Rube		Waddell		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 19
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Juan		Marichal	4	3	1	1	0	37
    Three Finger	Brown		2	2	3	1	0	29
    Sandy		Koufax		3	2	1	0	3	29
    Robin		Roberts		2	1	0	2	2	20
    Phil		Niekro		1	1	2	1	1	18
    Nolan		Ryan		0	1	2	3	1	17
    Gaylord		Perry		1	2	1	0	0	16
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	2	0	0	6
    Mariano		Rivera		1	0	0	0	1	6
    John		Clarkson	0	1	0	0	1	5
    Addie		Joss		0	0	1	1	0	5
    Al		Spalding	0	1	0	0	0	4
    Charles		Radbourn	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Carl		Mays		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Johan		Santana		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Rube		Waddell		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Hoyt		Wilhelm		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Roy		Halladay	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Ed		Walsh		0	0	0	0	1	1

    Code:
    FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Mordecai	Brown		6	4	2	0	1	53
    Sandy		Koufax		4	4	2	1	0	44
    Nolan		Ryan		1	3	2	2	2	29
    Phil		Niekro		0	4	1	0	0	19
    Gaylord		Perry		2	1	0	2	0	18
    John		Clarkson	2	0	1	1	1	16
    Robin		Roberts		1	0	1	2	4	16
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	3	2	2	15
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	2	2	1	11
    Rube		Waddell		0	2	0	0	2	10
    Ed		Walsh		1	0	1	0	0	8
    Tim		Keefe		0	1	1	0	0	7
    Mariano		Rivera		1	0	0	0	0	5
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	1	1	0	5
    Addie		Joss		0	0	1	0	1	4
    Bullet		Rogan		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Jose		Mendez		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Bob		Caruthers	0	0	0	1	0	2
    Catfish		Hunter		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Bert		Blyleven	0	0	0	0	2	2
    Hoyt		Wilhelm		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-01-2011, 11:54 AM.

  • #2
    Pitchers Form Chart:

    Pre - 1900: Tim Keefe, John "Monte" Ward, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Jim "Pud" Galvin, Mickey Welch, Sadie McMahon, Jim McCormick, Charlie "Old Hoss" Radbourne, Amos Rusie, Jim Whitney, Larry Corcoran, Clark Griffith, Al Spalding, Charlie Ferguson, Tony Mullane, Silver King, Bobby Mathews, Tommy Bond, Jim Creighton, Gus Weyhing, Jack Stivetts, Will White, Ted Breitenstein, Adonis Terry, Will White, Charlie Buffington, Bill Hutchison, Guy Hecker, Terry Larkin, George Bradley, Fred Goldsmith, Ed Morris, Dave Foutz, Toad Ramsey, Jim Devlin, Matt Kilroy, Ben Sanders, Elton Chamberlain.

    1900-1930: Rube Waddell, Addie Joss, Ed Walsh, Eddie Plank, Joe McGinnity, Chief Bender, Ed Reulbach, Nap Rucker, Wilbur Cooper, Deacon Phillippe, Dazzy Vance, Stan Coveleski, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Ed Cicotte, Bill Dinneen, Ted Lyons, Eppa Rixey, Vic Willis, Hippo Vaughn, Dutch Leonard, Urban Shocker, Burleigh Grimes, Doc White, Nick Altrock, Sam Jones, Jack Coombs, Joe Wood, Jack Chesbro, Jim Bagby, Bullet Joe Bush, Waite Hoyt, Red Faber, Bob Shawkey, Ray Caldwell, Ray Collins, George Mogridge, Earl Hamilton, George Uhle, Eddie Rommel, Dolph Luque.

    1930-1960: Dizzy Dean, Whitey Ford, Robin Roberts, Wes Ferrell, Bob Lemon, Lefty Gomez, Hal Newhouser, Red Ruffing, Bucky Walters, Early Wynn, Billy Pierce, Don Newcombe, Tommy Bridges, Lon Warneke, Mel Harder, Bob Turley, Harry Breechen and Bobby Shantz.

    1960-1980: Nolan Ryan, Gaylord Perry, Sandy Koufax, Phil Niekro, Jim "Catfish" Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Wilbur Wood, Don Drysdale, Jim Bunning, Mickey Lolich, Luis Tiant, Sparky Lyle, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, Bert Blyleven, Lew Burdette, Curt Simmons, Harvey Haddix, Johnny Antonelli, Vern Law, Bob Purkey, Johnny Podres, Joe Nuxhall, Ron Perranoski, Bob Veale, Dick Ellsworth, Jim Maloney, Chris Short, Bob Friend, Jim Palmer, Milt Pappas, Jerry Koosman, Dock Ellis, Sam McDowell, Jim 'Mudcat' Grant.

    1980-Present: Curt Schilling, Jack Morris, Kevin Brown, John Smoltz, Mike Mussina, Tom Glavine, Dave Stieb, Johan Santana, David Cone.

    Negro Leagues:

    Wilbur "Bullet Joe" Rogan, (1917-1938)
    "Cannonball" Dick Redding, (1911-1938)
    Dave Brown, (1918-1925)
    Andrew "Rube" Foster, (1902-1926)
    Bill 'Willie' Foster, (1923-1938)
    Ray Brown (1930-1948)
    Hilton Smith (1932-1948
    Jesse 'Nip" Winters (1920-1933)
    Will 'Cannonball' Jackman (1925-1936)
    Jose Mendez (1908-1926)
    John Donaldson (1913-1934)
    Walter Ball (1903-1923)

    Comment


    • #3
      My Slate of Candidates for this round. Numbers following indicate where Bill James ranked them in 2001.

      1. Nolan Ryan 26
      2. Addie Joss 82
      3. Amos Rusie 30
      4. Rube Waddell 55
      5. Sandy Koufax 12

      Next up.

      Eddie Plank 36
      "Bullet Joe" Rogan (Neg L) unranked
      Dazzy Vance 37
      Kid Nichols
      Carl Hubbell

      Might I persuade any of you guys to consider voting in our other polls?

      17th Greatest Hitter

      51th Greatest Player

      Wagner/Mays?

      I would consider it a great favor if you did.
      Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-13-2011, 10:00 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm amazed AND dismayed that Nolan Ryan garnered the third most votes in the last round. I'm even more dismayed that Bill has him at the top of his list. Not that I'm lobbying, but I truly truly believe that Nolan Ryan is not among the top 25 pitchers alltime.

        And, while I'm at it Bill, you've made a couple of other "interesting" picks. Care to elaborate?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BigRon View Post
          I'm amazed AND dismayed that Nolan Ryan garnered the third most votes in the last round. I'm even more dismayed that Bill has him at the top of his list. Not that I'm lobbying, but I truly truly believe that Nolan Ryan is not among the top 25 pitchers alltime.

          And, while I'm at it Bill, you've made a couple of other "interesting" picks. Care to elaborate?
          Not at all. Always enjoy talking about one of my favorite subjects -- my baseball opinions. Especially with my baseball buddies, of which you certainly are, BigRon!

          1. Nolan Ryan - He was one of my idols. After obsessing on baseball from 1959-65, I didn't follow baseball from 1966-mid-80's. It was The Ryan Express that started me to refocus on my early childhood obsession again. I think that I've shown pretty good discipline in waiting until the Top 20 had come and went before giving Nolan some love. Some of his teams were not the best and that accounts for at least some of his less than sterling W-L record. His control improved a great deal when he went to the Texas Rangers, and towards the end of his career, I don't think it is out of order to say he became a control pitcher. At the end of his career, his hits/g and walks/g and SO/g ratios continued to improve.

          Most pitchers who hang on too long let their stats get worse and worse, but Ryan was getting sharper and sharper.

          Addie Joss - He was a great control pitcher whose bread and butter pitch was his changeup. His stats would have improved a lot because he died in his prime at the age of 31. But his walk ratio is still one of the best, as is his ERA+.

          I realize I'm pushing his case a little bit with his Innings Pitched at only 2327, but that is only due to his premature death. He was more reliable than Waddell & was rated on a par with Walsh, just beneath Walter Johnson when he died.

          He had 4 20 g seasons, and won 2 ERA titles. His winning percentage was .623. On the other hand, he pitched when pitchers had all the advantages.

          Amos Rusie - He was a peak pitcher because he blew his arm out at the age of 27. What a waste of potential! But he was so dominant that they moved the pitcher's box back to 60 feet because of him. He had 4 30 g seasons in a row! Yes, you read me right. Not 20 but 30!

          Rube Waddell - Somewhat like Rusie. A peak guy. Rube was washed up at only 33, due to drinking too hard and goofing off and not trying hard enough to keep in shape. But when he had it, he had it. Led the league in SOs 6 years in a row.

          Sandy Koufax - Still another Rusie/Waddell type. Sandy the Dandy was my childhood idol. God, I remember sprinting home after school to watch him finish his game on TV! He had to retire at age 30 with arthritis in his left elbow. Today, they could have treated him successfully. Another huge waste of potential. My day was not complete until I saw his box score in the morning papers before I went to school. If the paper was late due to the paperboy being late, I had to wait to I got home to find out if my day was a good one or bad one! If he had at least 7 SO's and only 6 hits, BINGO! My day was MADE!

          So, that's the best I can do to defend my opinions. If pressed maybe I can dig a little deeper, but I'm quite lazy you know.
          Last edited by Bill Burgess; 07-31-2011, 04:52 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            John Clarkson
            Tim Keefe
            Sandy Koufax
            Robin Roberts
            Phil Niekro

            Eddie Plank
            Whitey Ford
            Nolan Ryan
            Gaylord Perry

            eventually I'll come up with a tenth. Bill I think Kid Nichols and Carl Hubbell have been elected.

            Comment


            • #7
              We only have 2 ballots, guys. And one of them is mine! C'mon now. Let's get this poll rolling. Let's show the world that we know how to rank our pitchers! We need a little bit of steam here.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'll try to post either later today or tomorrow.

                Comment


                • #9
                  THANK YOU, BigRon! I appreciate it. Hope the others follow your good example.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1. Robin Roberts
                    2. Phil Niekro
                    3. Sandy Koufax
                    4. Gaylord Perry
                    5. Jim Palmer

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you, BigRon! :applaud::applaud::applaud:

                      We're up to a big, huge 3 ballots! We're on a roll!!!! Wowee. We're hot again.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1.) Eddie Plank
                        2.) Phil Niekro
                        3.) Tim Keefe
                        4.) Whitey Ford
                        5.) Sandy Koufax

                        Honorable mentions, in no particular order:
                        Don Drysdale
                        Amos Rusie
                        Wilbur "Bullet" Rogan
                        Nolan Ryan
                        Addie Joss
                        Last edited by Gocardinals; 08-02-2011, 12:40 PM. Reason: Confused Lefty Gomez and Lefty Grove

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          1. John Clarkson
                          2. Bullet Joe Rogan
                          3. Robin Roberts
                          4. Tim Keefe
                          5. Willie Foster
                          "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                          "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                          "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                          "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bump for

                            Perry
                            Niekro
                            Koufax
                            Roberts
                            Blyleven

                            The further down the list we go, the more pitchers become interchangeable. Palmer, Ryan, Clarkson, Keefe, Walsh, and others should find spots soon. Who makes it will likely be a random draw from a group I consider most worthy for a spot.
                            "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

                            - Alvin Dark

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Code:
                              FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
                              Sandy		Koufax		2	5	4	0	1	43
                              Nolan		Ryan		1	3	2	2	2	29
                              John		Clarkson	3	0	1	1	0	20
                              Phil		Niekro		0	3	2	0	2	20
                              Gaylord		Perry		2	1	0	2	0	18
                              Whitey		Ford		0	0	4	1	3	17
                              Robin		Roberts		1	0	1	3	3	17
                              Jim		Palmer		0	0	2	3	1	13
                              Tim		Keefe		0	2	0	2	0	12
                              Rube		Waddell		0	1	0	1	1	7
                              Eddie		Plank		0	1	0	1	0	6
                              Amos		Rusie		0	0	2	0	0	6
                              Lefty		Gomez		1	0	0	0	0	5
                              Addie		Joss		0	1	0	0	1	5
                              Bullet		Rogan		0	1	0	0	1	5
                              Mariano		Rivera		0	1	0	0	0	4
                              Ed		Walsh		0	0	1	0	0	3
                              Bert		Blyleven	0	0	0	0	2	2
                              Bob		Caruthers	0	0	0	1	0	2
                              Catfish		Hunter		0	0	0	1	0	2
                              Jose		Mendez		0	0	0	1	0	2
                              Bill		Foster		0	0	0	0	1	1
                              Hoyt		Wilhelm		0	0	0	0	1	1

                              Sandy cruises to an easy win.
                              "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

                              - Alvin Dark

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X