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17th Greatest Hitter

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  • 17th Greatest Hitter

    Congratulations to the Reds' and Orioles heavy hitter, Frank Robinson, for winning our 16th Greatest Hitter of All Time! Frank scored 70 points with 3 1st place votes from our 17 voters.

    In the process of winning, Frank beat out the White Sox' slugger, Frank Thomas, who scored 68 points, spiced with 4 first place votes. Frank beat out Nap Lajoie, the turn-of-the-century keystone sacker, who both fielded great and hit great, too. Nap scored 45 points with 4 first place votes.

    This round for our 17th Greatest Hitter of All Time is now open! Let the Games Begin! Round 17 will end when AstrosFan calls it. How bout helpin' him out with lots of full 5 person ballots and 5 person Honorable Mentions to work with!

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Ted Williams
    3. Ty Cobb
    4. Lou Gehrig
    5. Rogers Hornsby
    6. Mickey Mantle
    7. Stan Musial
    8. Barry Bonds
    9. Hank Aaron
    10. Honus Wagner
    11. Willie Mays
    12. Jimmie Foxx
    13. Tris Speaker
    14. Joe DiMaggio
    15. Josh Gibson
    16. Frank Robinson
    17.

    As per our usual, please consider everything. Relative stats, counting totals, peak, longevity, special skills, home/away splits, etc. If anyone wants to show the relative stats, home/away breakdowns for the leading candidates, that would be great. Can't hurt, always helps.

    We are now ONLY voting for the 17th Greatest Hitter of All. So, please submit your list of your next Top 5 Hitters along with your next set of 5 Honorable Mentions, if you would be so kind. As the winner of Round 16, Frank Robinson is now eliminated from our further consideration.
    Code:
    Round 1.---23 voters
    
    -------------------1st pl.-----------2nd------3rd------4th----5th--Total 
    1. Babe Ruth------70 pts.(14)------28(7)----3(1)------0-----1(1)----101 
    2. Ted Williams-----30(6)------------48(12)---9(3)-----2(1)---1(1)----90
    3. Ty Cobb---------15(3)-------------8(2)--30(10)-----6(3)-----0-----59
    4. Lou Gehrig--------0----------------4(1)---15(5)----10(5)---5(5)----34
    5. Rogers Hornsby---0-----------------0-------6(2)----12(6)---6(6)---24
    6. Stan Musial-------0-----------------4(1)-----0-------2(1)---2(2)----8
    7. Hank Aaron-------0-----------------0--------3(1)----2(1)---2(2)----7
    7. Mickey Mantle----0-----------------0---------0------6(3)---1(1)----7
    9. Barry Bonds------0-----------------0---------3(1)----0------2(2)---5
    10. Frank Thomas---0-----------------0---------0-------4(2)----0-----4
    11. Tony Gwynn----0-----------------0---------0--------2(1)----0-----2
    12. Alex Rodriguez--0-----------------0---------0---------0------1(1)--1
    13. Joe DiMaggio---0-----------------0---------0---------0------1(1)--1
    14. Jimmy Foxx-----0-----------------0---------0---------0------1(1)--1
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 2.---21 voters
    
    1. Ted Williams - 101(17)
    2. Ty Cobb - 73(4)
    3. Lou Gehrig - 37
    4. Rogers Hornsby - 35
    5. Hank Aaron - 19
    6. Stan Musial - 13
    7. Willie Mays - 8
    8. Josh Gibson - 6
    9. Mickey Mantle - 5
    10. Barry Bonds - 4
    11. Tony Gwynn - 2
    12. Honus Wagner - 1
    12. Jimmy Foxx - 1
    12. Alexander Rodriguez - 1
    
    Here is the breakdown.
    
    ---------------------1st place------2nd--------3rd----------4th---------5th
    1. Ted Williams--------85(17)-------16(4)-------0------------0-----------0
    2. Ty Cobb-----------20(4)--------44(11)------6(2)--------2(1)---------1(1)
    3. Lou Gehrig----------0------------4(1)-------6(2)--------6(3)---------4(4)
    4. Rogers Hornsby-----0------------8(2)-------18(6)-------6(3)---------3(3)
    5. Hank Aaron---------0------------4(1)-------6(2)--------6(3)---------4(4)
    6. Stan Musial---------0------------4(1)-------3(1)--------4(2)---------2(2)
    7. Willie Mays---------0--------------0----------0---------6(3)---------2(2)
    8. Josh Gibson--------0--------------0---------6(2)---------0-----------0
    9. Mickey Mantle------0--------------0---------3(1)--------0-----------2(2)
    10. Barry Bonds-------0-------------4(1)--------0----------0------------0
    11. Honus Wagner-----0--------------0---------0-----------0-----------1(1)
    12. Jimmy Foxx--------0--------------0---------0-----------0-----------1(1)
    13. Tony Gwynn-------0--------------0---------0-----------0-----------1(1)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 3.---20 voters
    
    1. Ty Cobb - 85(12)
    2. Lou Gehrig - 54(3)
    3. Rogers Hornsby - 45(1)
    4. Hank Aaron - 28(2)
    5. Mickey Mantle - 18
    6. Stan Musial - 15
    7. Barry Bonds - 13(2)
    8. Willie Mays - 11
    9. Josh Gibson - 8
    10. Honus Wagner - 7
    10. Frank Thomas - 7
    12. Jimmy Foxx - 4
    13. Alexander Rodriguez - 1
    
    Here's the fine breakdown.
    
    ---------------------1st-----2nd---3rd----4th----5th
    1. Ty Cobb--------60(12)---12(3)--12(4)---0-----1(1)
    2. Lou Gehrig-------5(3)-----8(2)---21(7)--8(4)---2(2)
    3. Rogers Hornsby--5(1)----24(6)----9(3)--4(2)---3(3)
    4. Hank Aaron-----10(2)------0------6(2)-10(5)---2(2)
    5. Mickey Mantle----0-------8(2)----0------8(3)---2(2)
    6. Stan Musial-------0-------4(1)---3(1)----2(1)---6(6)
    7. Barry Bonds------10(2)----0-----3(1)-----0------0
    8. Willie Mays--------0-------8(2)--3(1)-----0------0
    9. Josh Gibson-------0-------4(1)----0-----4(2)----0
    10. Honus Wagner---0-------4(1)----0-----2(1)----1(1) 
    10. Frank Thomas---0-------4(1)----3(1)----0------0
    12. Jimmy Foxx-----0---------0-------0-----2(1)---2(2)
    13. Alexander Rodriguez-0----0--------0------0-----1(1)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 4.  ---21 voters.
    
    1. Lou Gehrig - 85(9)
    2. Rogers Hornsby - 82(9)
    3. Mickey Mantle - 32(1)
    4. Hank Aaron - 27(1)
    5. Stan Musial - 17
    6. Honus Wagner - 16
    7. Josh Gibson - 15
    8. Willie Mays - 11
    9. Barry Bonds - 8
    10. Jimmy Foxx - 6
    11. Frank Thomas - 5
    12. Alexander Rodriguez - 3
    13. Chino Smith - 2
    14. Joe DiMaggio - 1
    14. Rod Carew - 1
    14. Tris Speaker - 1
    
    Fine Breakdown:
    
    ---------------------------1st---2nd----3rd----4th---5th
    1. Lou Gehrig-------------45(9)--24(6)--12(4)--4(2)---0
    2. Rogers Hornsby--------45(9)--24(6)---9(3)---4(2)---0
    3. Mickey Mantle----------5(1)---4(1)--15(5)---8(4)---0
    4. Hank Aaron-------------5(1)---4(1)---9(3)---4(2)--5(5)
    5. Stan Musial--------------0-----4(1)---6(2)---6(3)--1(1)
    6. Honus Wagner-----------0-----8(2)---3(1)----0----5(5) 
    6. Josh Gibson-------------0-----4(1)---9(3)----2(1)---0 
    8. Willie Mays--------------0-----4(1)----0------6(3)--1(1)
    9. Barry Bonds-------------0-----4(1)----0------2(1)--2(2) 
    10. Frank Thomas----------0-----4(1)----0------0-----1(1) 
    11. Jimmy Foxx------------0-------0------0-----4(2)--2(2) 
    12. Alexander Rodriguez----0-------0------0-----2(1)--1(1) 
    13. Chino Smith------------0-------0------0-----2(1)---0
    14. Joe DiMaggio-----------0-------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Rod Carew-------------0-------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Tris Speaker
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 5.---21 voters.---last round
    
    1. Rogers Hornsby - 92(17)
    2. Mickey Mantle - 38(1)
    3. Barry Bonds - 32(1)
    4. Honus Wagner - 30
    5. Stan Musial - 28
    6. Hank Aaron - 24(1)
    7. Willie Mays - 17
    8. Josh Gibson - 11
    9. Joe DiMaggio - 6
    10. Dan Brouthers - 5(1)
    11. Jimmy Foxx - 4
    12. Frank Thomas - 3
    12. Ichiro Suzuki - 3
    14. Alexander Rodriguez - 2
    14. Chino Smith - 2
    16. Joe Jackson - 1
    16. Buck Leonard - 1
    16. Tris Speaker - 1
    
    The fine breakdown.
    ---------------------1st------2nd----3rd-----4th-----5th---Totals
    1. Rogers Hornsby----85(17)---4(1)--3(1)------0------0------92
    2. Mickey Mantle-------5(1)--16(4)---12(4)---2(1)---3(3)----38
    3. Barry Bonds----------5(1)---8(2)----3(1)--14(7)---2(2)----32
    4. Honus Wagner---------0----24(6)---6(2)----0------0------30
    5. Stan Musial------------0-----4(1)--12(4)---2(1)---3(2)----28
    6. Hank Aaron-----------5(1)----4(1---9(3)---4(2)---2(1)----24
    7. Willie Mays-------------0-----4(1)---6(2)---4(2)---3(3)----17
    8. Josh Gibson------------0-----8(2)---3(1)-----0-----0------11
    9. Joe DiMaggio-----------0-------0----3(3)---2(1)---1(1)-----6
    10. Dan Brouthers--------5(1)-----0-----0------0------0------5
    11. Jimmy Foxx-----------0-------0------0-----0------4(4)----4
    12. Frank Thomas--------0--------0----3(1)----0------0-------3
    12. Ichiro Suzuki---------0--------0----3(1)----0------0-------3
    14. Alexander Rodriquez--0--------0-----0------2(1)---0-------2
    14. Chino Smith----------0--------0-----0------2(1)---0-------2
    16. Joe Jackson----------0--------0-----0------0------1(1)----1
    16. Buck Leonard----------0--------0-----0------0-----1(1)----1
    16. Tris Speaker-----------0--------0-----0------0-----1(1)----1
    Round 6
    Code:
    Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Mickey	Mantle		6	5	3	1	1	62
    Stan	Musial		4	4	5	0	4	55
    Barry	Bonds		5	2	3	3	2	50
    Honus	Wagner		5	1	2	1	4	41
    Willie	Mays		0	3	3	5	0	31
    Hank	Aaron		0	2	1	5	2	23
    Tris	Speaker		0	1	1	1	2	11
    Josh	Gibson		0	1	1	1	0	9
    Joe	DiMaggio	0	0	1	1	0	5
    Alex	Rodriguez	0	1	0	0	1	5
    Frank	Thomas		0	0	0	0	4	4
    Round 7
    Code:
    Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Stan	Musial		4	9	3	1	2	69
    Barry	Bonds		9	2	3	2	2	68
    Hank	Aaron		0	3	5	4	3	38
    Honus	Wagner		4	1	0	4	2	34
    Willie	Mays		0	1	3	3	3	22
    Jimmie	Foxx		1	1	3	0	0	18
    Josh	Gibson		1	1	1	1	1	15
    Tris	Speaker		0	1	2	0	4	14
    Albert	Pujols		1	0	0	1	1	8
    Joe	DiMaggio	0	1	0	1	1	7
    Dan	Brouthers	0	0	1	1	0	5
    Frank	Thomas		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Roger	Connor		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Alex	Rodriguez	0	0	0	0	0	0
    Round 8.
    Code:
    Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Barry	Bonds		5	4	3	2	0	54
    Hank	Aaron		3	1	8	1	4	49
    Honus	Wagner		5	1	3	2	2	44
    Willie	Mays		1	4	3	5	1	41
    Jimmie	Foxx		2	4	1	1	6	37
    Josh	Gibson		3	1	0	0	1	20
    Tris	Speaker		0	1	1	2	2	13
    Joe	DiMaggio	0	1	0	2	0	8
    Frank	Thomas		0	1	0	2	0	8
    Hank	Greenberg	0	1	1	0	0	7
    Tony	Gwynn		1	0	0	0	0	5
    Wade	Boggs		0	1	0	0	0	4
    Joe	Jackson		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Dan	Brouthers	0	0	0	1	0	2
    Nap	Lajoie		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Mel	Ott		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Manny	Ramirez		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Al	Simmons		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 9.
    Code:
    Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Hank	Aaron		5	5	5	1	2	64
    Willie	Mays		2	5	6	2	0	52
    Honus	Wagner		5	3	2	2	3	50
    Jimmie	Foxx		1	3	1	5	5	35
    Tris	Speaker		1	1	1	1	4	18
    Frank	Thomas		1	1	1	2	0	16
    Josh	Gibson		2	0	0	1	0	12
    Shoeless Joe	Jackson	1	0	0	1	0	7
    Albert	Pujols		1	0	0	0	0	5
    Joe	DiMaggio	0	0	1	0	1	4
    Hank	Greenberg	0	1		0	0	4
    Dan	Brouthers	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mel	Ott		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Frank	Robinson	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Nap	Lajoie		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Manny	Ramirez		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Sam	Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
    Oscar	Charleston	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Willie	McCovey		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Alex	Rodriguez	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 10
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Honus		Wagner		8	2	2	3	0	60
    Willie		Mays		3	6	4	2	2	57
    Jimmie		Foxx		1	6	6	1	3	52
    Frank		Thomas		2	3	3	1	1	34
    Tris		Speaker		2	1	1	4	0	25
    Shoeless Joe	Jackson		2	0	1	0	2	15
    Josh		Gibson		1	1	0	1	1	12
    Albert		Pujols		0	0	1	2	1	8
    Frank		Robinson	0	1	0	1	1	7
    Joe		DiMaggio	0	0	1	1	1	6
    Dan		Brouthers	0	0	1	0	2	5
    Alex		Rodriguez	1	0	0	0	0	5
    Nap		Lajoie		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Mel		Ott		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Hank		Greenberg	0	0	0	1	0	2
    Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Manny		Ramirez		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Mike		Schmidt		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 11
    Code:
    Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Willie	Mays		12	3	0	3	0	78
    Jimmie	Foxx		4	9	4	2	0	72
    Tris	Speaker		0	2	4	2	3	27
    Josh	Gibson		2	0	2	1	2	20
    Frank	Thomas		1	0	3	2	0	18
    Joe	DiMaggio	0	2	1	1	1	14
    Frank	Robinson	0	0	1	3	2	11
    Mel	Ott		0	1	1	1	1	10
    Nap	Lajoie		0	0	1	2	2	9
    Mike	Schmidt		0	0	0	2	3	7
    Dan	Brouthers	0	1	0	0	2	6
    Ken	Griffey Jr.	0	1	0	0	0	4
    Hank	Greenberg	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Alex	Rodriguez	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Albert	Pujols		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Ed	Delahanty	0	0	0	0	1	1
    [/code]
    Round 12
    Code:
    Fname	Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Jimmie	Foxx		9	2	1	0	1	57
    Tris	Speaker		0	4	0	7	0	30
    Josh	Gibson		1	3	2	0	2	25
    Joe	DiMaggio	2	2	0	1	4	24
    Nap	Lajoie		0	1	3	0	0	13
    Frank	Thomas		0	1	3	0	0	13
    Mike	Schmidt		0	0	2	2	2	12
    Frank	Robinson	0	0	2	1	2	10
    Mel	Ott		0	0	1	2	0	7
    Dan	Brouthers	1	0	0	0	1	6
    Ken	Griffey Jr.	1	0	0	0	0	5
    Hank	Greenberg	0	1	0	0	0	4
    Ichiro	Suzuki		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Mark	McGwire		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Albert	Pujols		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 13
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Tris		Speaker		2	4	4	2	0	42
    Josh		Gibson		5	2	0	2	0	37
    Nap		Lajoie		2	2	2	0	1	25
    Joe		DiMaggio	2	0	0	2	5	19
    Mike		Schmidt		0	2	2	2	0	18
    Frank		Robinson	0	1	1	3	1	14
    Frank		Thomas		0	1	1	0	1	8
    Dan		Brouthers	1	0	0	1	0	7
    Hank		Greenberg	0	1	0	0	1	5
    Ken		Griffey Jr.	1	0	0	0	0	5
    Mel		Ott		0	0	1	0	1	4
    Sam		Crawford	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Shoeless Joe	Jackson		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Lefty		O'Doul		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Harry		Heilmann	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Alex		Rodriguez	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 14
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Joe		DiMaggio	3	1	1	6	0	34
    Josh		Gibson		3	2	3	0	1	33
    Nap		Lajoie		3	1	2	1	2	29
    Frank		Robinson	1	2	2	1	1	22
    Mike		Schmidt		0	3	3	0	0	21
    Frank		Thomas		0	2	1	0	2	13
    Hank		Greenberg	1	0	0	1	4	11
    Dan		Brouthers	1	0	1	0	0	8
    Mel		Ott		0	1	1	0	0	7
    Alex		Rodriguez	1	0	0	1	0	7
    Ken		Griffey Jr.	1	0	0	0	0	5
    Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
    Shoeless Joe	Jackson		0	1	0	0	0	4
    Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	1	0	2
    Harry		Heilmann	0	0	0	1	0	2
    Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Albert		Pujols		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Chino		Smith		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Mark		McGwire		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Lefty		O'Doul		0	0	0	0	1	1
    15th Greatest Hitter
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Josh		Gibson		6	3	3	1	1	54
    Nap		Lajoie		3	2	3	2	0	36
    Frank		Robinson	2	3	2	2	4	36
    Mike		Schmidt		1	2	5	1	2	32
    Frank		Thomas		0	6	0	2	0	28
    Hank		Greenberg	2	0	1	4	0	21
    Albert		Pujols		2	0	0	1	2	14
    Mel		Ott		0	1	1	1	0	9
    Alex		Rodriguez	1	0	1	0	1	9
    Dan		Brouthers	1	0	1	0	0	8
    Shoeless Joe	Jackson		0	1	0	1	1	7
    Ken		Griffey Jr.	1	0	0	0	0	5
    Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
    Johnny		Mize		0	0	1	0	1	4
    Chino		Smith		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	1	0	2
    Harry		Heilmann	0	0	0	1	0	2
    Eddie		Collins		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Mark		McGwire		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Lefty		O'Doul		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 16.
    Code:
    FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Frank		Robinson	3	5	5	7	6	70
    Frank		Thomas		4	3	7	5	5	68
    Nap		Lajoie		4	1	4	4	1	45
    Mike		Schmidt		0	4	2	7	4	40
    Mel		Ott		1	2	4	1	8	35
    Albert		Pujols		2	2	0	5	4	32
    Hank		Greenberg	1	3	1	2	2	26
    Joe		Jackson		0	1	3	4	4	25
    Dan		Brouthers	2	1	1	0	3	20
    Alex		Rodriguez	0	1	3	1	0	15
    Eddie		Collins		0	0	0	1	2	4
    Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
    Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	1	0	0	0	4
    Tony		Gwynn		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	0	0	4
    Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
    Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
    George		Brett		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Oscar		Charleston	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1

  • #2
    Reference Resources:

    Relative SLG. Ave. is the 1st number, and serves as presumption unless I note mitigating factors.

    1. Babe Ruth - 172.5 - 13 SLG. titles - 10,504 PA - 207 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 303. Need I say more? Nuff said.

    2. Ted Williams - 154.9 - 9 SLG. titles - 9786 PA - 185 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 220. Takes 2nd nicely. Missing war yrs.? Offset by Babe's "missing pitching yrs."

    3. Ty Cobb - 141.4 - 8 SLG. titles - 12,777 PA- 167 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 159. Ranks above others with higher SLG. AVE., due to more titles, over a much longer career, higher PA, extended decline phase. Differences in PA with Hornsby equals 7 full seasons of decline.

    4. Rogers Hornsby - 147.3. - 9 titles - 9259 PA - 175 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 203. High SLG. Ave./titles earn high ranking.

    5. Lou Gehrig - 154.0 - 2 SLG. titles - 9954 PA - 179 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 230. Ave. held up well, of course due to lack of decline phase, hence low PA. Only won 2 titles.

    6. Barry Bonds - 148.0 - 7 SLG. titles - 12,606 PA - 182 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 213. I had him ranked 2nd, but his admitted steroid usage drops him IMHO. Had too great an advantage over his peers.

    7. Honus Wagner - 132.9 - 6 SLG. Titles - 11,731 PA - 150 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 167

    8. Willie Mays - 139.2 - 5 SLG. titles - 12,480 PA - 156 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 186.

    9. Mickey Mantle - 143.8 - 4 SLG. titles - 9895 PA - 172 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 198. Too few titles over relatively weak sluggers.

    10. Hank Aaron - 140.6 - 4 SLG. titles - 13,919 PA - 155 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 187. Too few titles over long career.

    11. Jimmy Foxx - 143.7 - 5 SLG. titles - 9,599 PA - 163 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 214. Too few PA relative to Aaron/Mays.


    12. Joe Jackson - 1.45.2 - 1 SLG. title - 5690 PA - 170 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 187. Too few PA to rank higher - Placed in top 5 SLG. all his 9 yrs.; 2nd 3 times, once 3rd, 2 4ths, 2 5ths.

    13. Stan Musial- 137.1 - 6 SLG. Titles - 12,712 PA - 159 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 168.

    14. Tris Speaker - 134.3 - 1 SLG. Title - 11,988 PA - 158 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 163.


    15. Nap Lajoie - 133.9 - 4 SLG. Titles - 10,460 PA - 150 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 159

    16. Mike Schmidt - 133.6 - 5 SLG. Titles - 10, 062 PA - 147 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 205.

    Sluggers such as Greenberg, McGwire, DiMaggio, Mize and Brouthers all had PA fewer than 7,700. Honorable Mentions to Richie Allen, Frank Thomas.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Code:
    My Candidates for Most Impressive Hitting Peak Ever:
    
    1. Barry Bonds - 2001-2004,---------244 OPS+
    
    2. Babe Ruth - 1920-1924,-----------221 OPS+
    
    3. Ted Williams - 1942-1949,--------209 OPS+
    
    4. Rogers Hornsby - 1921-1925,------202 OPS+
    
    5. Ty Cobb - 1909-1913,-------------197 OPS+
    
    6. Lou Gehrig - 1927-1934,----------193 OPS+
    
    7. Mickey Mantle - 1956-1962,-------191 OPS+
    
    8. Honus Wagner - 1905-1909,--------187 OPS+
    
    9. Stan Musial - 1943-1948,---------174 OPS+
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Win Shares:
    as compiled by Chris (538280)
    
    Wagner 1905-1909: 237
    Ruth 1920-1924: 233
    Bonds 2000-2004: 227
    Williams 1941-1949: 220
    Cobb 1909-1913: 207
    Mantle 1956-1960: 205
    Morgan 1972-1976: 197
    Gehrig 1927-1931: 193
    Musial 1943-1948: 192 
    Hornsby 1921-1925: 188
    
    WARP3-this has a LQ adjustment and it adjusted for the 162 game vs. 154 game schedule in case you don't know
    
    Bonds 2000-2004: 71.7
    Ruth 1920-1924: 71.5
    Williams: 1941-1948: 69.0
    Morgan 1972-1976: 66.3
    Hornsby 1921-1925: 63.6
    Wagner 1905-1909: 62.8
    Musial 1943-1948: 61.3
    Mantle 1956-1960: 61.1
    Gehrig 1927-1931: 57.3
    Cobb 1909-1913: 54.4
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Relative Stats: courtesy of David Kent:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rel Rel Through 2003, over 5,000 PA, indexed and park adjusted.
    Code:
    Pro+  OBA  Slg                                      Rel     Rel
    Rank Rank Rank  Player               PA    Pro+     OBA     Slg
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    
      1    2    1   Babe Ruth          10504   207.0   134.5   172.5 
      2    1    2   Ted Williams        9786   189.5   134.6   154.9
      3   11    3   Lou Gehrig          9554   180.4   126.4   154.0
      4    3    4   Barry Bonds        10963   180.0   131.6   148.4
      5    8    5   Rogers Hornsby      9259   174.7   127.4   147.3
      8   16    6   Joe Jackson         5559   168.7   123.9   144.8
     16  102    7   Hank Greenberg      6061   157.3   113.5   143.9
      6    5    8   Mickey Mantle       9895   172.1   128.3   143.8
     11   40    9   Mark McGwire        7657   162.8   119.0   143.8
     13   43   10   Jimmie Foxx         9599   161.6   117.9   143.7
     21  122   11   Joe DiMaggio        7657   155.6   112.7   142.9
     17   78   12   Johnny Mize         7351   157.0   114.9   142.1
      7    4   13   Dan Brouthers       7656   170.9   129.4   141.4
      9   10   14   Ty Cobb            12777   168.4   127.0   141.4
     22   83   15   Hank Aaron         13919   155.2   114.6   140.6
     18   54   16   Dick Allen          7295   156.7   116.8   140.0
     20   53   17   Willie Mays        12480   156.0   116.8   139.2
     25   52   18   Mike Piazza         6007   154.7   117.0   137.7
     14   24   19   Stan Musial        12677   158.2   121.1   137.1
     38  192   20   Willie Stargell     9017   147.1   110.0   137.1
     19   36   21   Manny Ramirez       5910   156.5   119.8   136.7
     26   41   22   Frank Robinson     11726   154.0   118.5   135.5
     12    9   23   Frank Thomas        8167   162.6   127.3   135.3
     10    6   24   Pete Browning       5315   163.2   128.0   135.3
     15   18   25   Tris Speaker       11679   157.4   123.0   134.3
     23   25   26   Mel Ott            11228   155.0   120.9   134.1
     48  215   27   Albert Belle        6669   142.9   108.9   134.0
     33   60   28   Nap Lajoie         10239   150.0   116.1   133.9
     35   86   29   Ralph Kiner         6247   148.0   114.4   133.7
     40  111   30   Mike Schmidt       10046   146.8   113.2   133.6
     41  131   31   Sam Thompson        6497   145.4   111.9   133.5
     29   42   32   Ed Delahanty        8340   151.5   118.1   133.4
     42  159   33   Ken Griffey Jr.     8161   144.0   110.9   133.1
     32   48   34   Honus Wagner       11518   150.4   117.6   132.9
     36   77   35   Willie McCovey      9681   147.7   114.9   132.9
     43  153   36   Alex Rodriguez      5671   143.9   111.1   132.7
     24   21   37   Roger Connor        8834   154.9   122.2   132.6
     46  158   38   Sam Crawford       10353   143.5   110.9   132.5
     93  514   39   Juan Gonzalez       7014   133.3   100.8   132.5
     49  163   40   Frank Howard        7346   142.8   110.7   132.2
     57  226   41   Jeff Heath          5540   140.4   108.6   131.8
     64  272   42   Wally Berger        5636   138.8   107.2   131.6
     39   66   43   Harry Heilmann      8683   147.0   115.7   131.2
     30   35   44   Jim Thome           6420   150.9   119.8   131.0
     27   20   45   Jeff Bagwell        8626   153.4   122.3   131.0
     44  118   46   Hack Wilson         5454   143.7   112.8   130.9
     50  125   47   Harry Stovey        6832   142.8   112.5   130.3
     58  165   48   Babe Herman         6134   140.2   110.6   129.6
     66  205   49   Darryl Strawberry   6325   138.6   109.3   129.3
    102  419   50   Sammy Sosa          8462   132.4   103.1   129.3
    
    
    
          Rel  Rel
    Pro+  OBA  Slg                                      Rel     Rel
    Rank Rank Rank  Player               PA    Pro+     OBA     Slg
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
      2    1    2   Ted Williams        9786   189.5   134.6   154.9
      1    2    1   Babe Ruth          10504   207.0   134.5   172.5
      4    3    4   Barry Bonds        10963   180.0   131.6   148.4
      7    4   13   Dan Brouthers       7656   170.9   129.4   141.4
      6    5    8   Mickey Mantle       9895   172.1   128.3   143.8
     10    6   24   Pete Browning       5315   163.2   128.0   135.3
     59    7  267   Billy Hamilton      7544   140.0   127.6   112.4
      5    8    5   Rogers Hornsby      9259   174.7   127.4   147.3
     12    9   23   Frank Thomas        8167   162.6   127.3   135.3
      9   10   14   Ty Cobb            12777   168.4   127.0   141.4
      3   11    3   Lou Gehrig          9554   180.4   126.4   154.0
    192   12  582   Roy Thomas          6409   123.6   126.3    97.3
     31   13   74   Edgar Martinez      8113   150.7   125.7   125.1
     52   14  156   Eddie Collins      11525   142.4   124.4   118.1
     28   15   53   Jason Giambi        5460   152.7   123.9   128.8
      8   16    6   Joe Jackson         5559   168.7   123.9   144.8
    140   17  420   Rickey Henderson   13316   128.6   123.4   105.2
     15   18   25   Tris Speaker       11679   157.4   123.0   134.3
    126   19  372   Wade Boggs         10711   130.0   123.0   107.0
     27   20   45   Jeff Bagwell        8626   153.4   122.3   131.0
     24   21   37   Roger Connor        8834   154.9   122.2   132.6
     82   22  246   George Gore         6104   135.0   122.0   113.1
     76   23  208   Gene Tenace         5504   136.3   121.2   115.0
     14   24   19   Stan Musial        12677   158.2   121.1   137.1
     23   25   26   Mel Ott            11228   155.0   120.9   134.1
    232   26  531   Mike Hargrove       6649   121.0   120.8   100.2
    105   27  285   Joe Morgan         11278   132.1   120.5   111.6
     34   28   54   Elmer Flick         6293   149.2   120.5   128.7
     56   29  118   Cap Anson          11292   140.9   120.4   120.5
     60   30  137   Jesse Burkett       9525   139.5   120.3   119.2
     37   31   60   Gary Sheffield      8026   147.5   120.1   127.4
    419   32  705   Eddie Stanky        5332   109.0   120.0    88.9
    143   33  351   Topsy Hartsel       5697   127.9   119.9   108.0
    120   34  300   Rod Carew          10422   131.0   119.9   111.1
     30   35   44   Jim Thome           6420   150.9   119.8   131.0
     19   36   21   Manny Ramirez       5910   156.5   119.8   136.7
    103   37  260   John Olerud         8360   132.3   119.6   112.7
     81   38  194   Arky Vaughan        7605   135.4   119.5   115.9
    107   39  254   Ken Singleton       8529   132.1   119.2   112.9
     11   40    9   Mark McGwire        7657   162.8   119.0   143.8
     26   41   22   Frank Robinson     11726   154.0   118.5   135.5
     29   42   32   Ed Delahanty        8340   151.5   118.1   133.4
     13   43   10   Jimmie Foxx         9599   161.6   117.9   143.7
     99   44  209   Tony Gwynn         10187   132.6   117.8   114.8
     47   45   71   Chipper Jones       6064   143.2   117.8   125.4
    388   46  649   Richie Ashburn      9624   110.9   117.8    93.1
    111   47  226   Jackie Robinson     5698   131.7   117.7   114.0
     32   48   34   Honus Wagner       11518   150.4   117.6   132.9
    167   49  345   Roger Bresnahan     5262   126.0   117.5   108.5
    118   50  229   Ross Youngs         5214   131.3   117.4   113.9
    __________________
    Dave Kent
    Code:
    Relative BA, after 2005:
    
    BA+   Player (thru '05) baseball-reference.com
    Currently active players are high-lighted in RED.
    
    1. 134.8 Cobb      CF
    2. 133.1 JJackson
    3. 130.8 Browning
    5. 128.1 TWilliams LF
    6. 127.8 Dan Brouthers 
    7. 127.7 Gwynn     RF
    8. 127.4 Lajoie    2B
    9. 127.2 Ichiro
    10. 127.0 Carew
    11. 126.2 Hornsby
    12. 125.4 Speaker
    13. 125.3 Pujols
    14. 124.4 Tip O'Neill
    15. 124.4 Keeler
    16. 123.9 Musial    1B
    17. 123.7 Boggs     3B
    18. 123.6 Donlin
    19. 123.1 Wagner    SS
    20. 122.8 Anson
    21. 122.7 Hamilton
    22. 122.6 Delahanty
    23. 121.8 ECollins
    24. 121.6 Burkett
    25. 121.0 Puckett 
    26. 120.7 Clemente
    27. 120.4 Oliva
    28. 120.3 SThompson
    29. 119.4 Heilmann
    30. 119.2 Ruth
    31. 118.9 Sisler
    32. 118.8 Crawford 
    33. 118.5 KKelly
    34. 118.1 Connor
    35. 117.9 MoAlou
    36. 117.8 Piazza   C
    37. 117.8 Medwick
    38. 117.8 PWaner
    39. 117.7 O'Rourke
    40. 117.4 Flick
    41. 117.3 BTerry
    42. 117.2 Gehrig
    43. 117.1 JDiMaggio
    44. 117.0 Beaumont
    45. 116.9 EMartinez
    46. 116.9 Mattingly
    47. 116.7 Garr
    48. 116.4 Mota
    49. 116.3 Brett
    50. 116.3 DMitchell
    51. 116.2 JMcGraw
    52. 116.2 LWalker v
    53. 116.0 Aaron 
    57. 115.6 Rose 
    59. 115.4 Al Simmons
    60. 115.4 Frank Baker 
    
    66. 115.0 Mantle 
    67. 115.0 Johnny Mize
    71. 114.9 Wheat 
    82. 114.3 Mays 
    75. 114.6 FThomas
    90. 113.8 Foxx 
    92. 113.8 Roush 
    99. 113.4 Frank Robinson

    Comment


    • #3
      My Candidates for 16th Greatest Hitter:

      1. Nap Lajoie
      2. Mike Schmidt
      3. A.Rodriguez
      4. Albert Pujols
      5. Joe Jackson

      Coming Soon to a computer screen near you.

      Hank Greenberg


      Might I persuade any of you guys to consider voting in our other polls?

      52th Greatest Player

      22nd Greatest Pitcher

      Wagner/Mays?

      I would consider it a great favor if you did.
      Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-15-2011, 07:12 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Brouthers
        Lajoie
        Greenberg
        Joe Jackson
        Schmidt

        up next come A-Rod and Frank Thomas
        maybe Mize, Junior, Roger Connor

        Comment


        • #5
          Up we go!!! Only Hitters, not as players...

          1. Mel Ott
          2. Nap Lajoie
          3. Dan Brouthers
          4. Albert Pujols
          5. Joe DiMaggio

          Cap Anson
          Alex Rodriguez
          Eddie Collins
          Ed Delahanty
          Mike Schmidt
          "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
          George Brett

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm calling it. Still using a lot of previous votes. Could use some participants.

            Code:
            FirstName	LastName	First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
            Frank		Thomas		3	2	5	10	4	62
            Nap		Lajoie		4	2	3	3	2	45
            Mel		Ott		1	4	1	4	7	39
            Mike		Schmidt		0	3	3	5	8	39
            Albert		Pujols		1	2	3	3	6	34
            Hank		Greenberg	2	2	1	2	3	28
            Joe		Jackson		0	0	5	3	4	25
            Dan		Brouthers	2	1	1	2	1	22
            Alex		Rodriguez	0	2	2	1	0	16
            Tony		Gwynn		0	0	1	1	1	6
            Eddie		Collins		0	0	0	2	1	5
            Sam		Crawford	0	1	0	0	0	4
            Mark		McGwire		0	1	0	0	0	4
            George		Brett		0	0	0	1	1	3
            Ken		Griffey Jr.	0	0	1	0	0	3
            Harry		Heilmann	0	0	1	0	0	3
            Johnny		Mize		0	0	0	0	2	2
            Al		Simmons		0	0	0	0	2	2
            Sam		Thompson	0	0	0	1	0	2
            Wade		Boggs		0	0	0	0	1	1
            Oscar		Charleston	0	0	0	0	1	1
            Ed		Delahanty	0	0	0	0	1	1
            Pop		Lloyd		0	0	0	0	1	1
            Mike		Piazza		0	0	0	0	1	1
            Ichiro		Suzuki		0	0	0	0	1	1
            "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

            - Alvin Dark

            Comment

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