Greatest Player by Position: Round 4

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Greetings members of the Fever. Every year, I conduct an unofficial survey on who we believe to be the top ten at each position. It's going on its fifth-year anniversary, so I hope to continue it with much support.

All you have to do is post your ballot of the top ten players at the designated position. The system is the familiar point assignments: 10 points for first place, 9 for second, etc. When I close the voting, I tally up everyone's ballot and release the year's unofficial top ten.

We start with catchers for round one. Post your top ten catchers according to any criteria you seem fit. All I ask is that after each place, you assign points for the slot (10 for your all-time best, 9 for second, etc.) Though the rankings are on you, please consider a player's career across all positions.

The only rule: players must have played American MLB baseball. This is the first year I've decided to exclude Negro Leaguers. Also, if there are any discrepancies in the ballots, I reserve the right to withhold your ballot until the issue is cleared up (I will send you a private message).

For future reference, the following players have been considered eligible these positions since we only vote for them once (i.e. Ernie Banks is only in the shortstop round and not considered in the first basemen round):
Ernie Banks- shortstop
Pete Rose- Left field
Alex Rodriguez- shortstop
Dick Allen- first base
Paul Molitor- third base
Willie Stargell- left field
Harmon Killebrew- first base
Rod Carew- second base
Darrell Evans- third base

Also note that there is no DH round, so consider players like Edgar Martinez and Frank Thomas for their main fielding position.
---------------------------
Second basemen got interesting at the end
1) Rogers Hornsby- 139 pts
2) Eddie Collins- 120 pts
3) Joe Morgan- 110 pts
4) Nap Lajoie- 102 pts
5) Charlie Gehringer- 75 pts
6) Jackie Robinson- 73 pts
7) Rod Carew- 39 pts
8) Frankie Frisch- 34 pts
9) Roberto Alomar- 18 pts
10) Craig Biggio- 15 pts
-----Ryne Sandberg- 15 pts

Time for third base

	2008			2009		2010		2011		Average
1	Schmidt (137)		Schmidt (120)	Schmidt (160)	Schmidt (200)	Schmidt (154.25)			
2	Brett (116)		Mathews (102)	Mathews (141)	Mathews (170)	Mathews (131.75)			
3	Mathews (114)		Brett (101)	Brett (126)	Brett (163)	Brett (126.5)				
4	Boggs (97)		Boggs (73)	Boggs (107)	Boggs (130)	Boggs (101.75)				
5	Baker (70)		Baker (58)	Jones (86)	Jones (127)	Jones (80.5)				
6	C. Jones (65)		Jones (44)	Santo (67)	Santo (70)	Baker (61.25)				
7	Santo (57)		Santo (43)	Baker (60)	Robinson (59)	Santo (59.25)				
8	Robinson (28)		Robinson (37)	Robinson (50)	Baker (57)	Robinson (43.5)			
9	J. Collins (21)		Molitor (19)	Molitor (30)	Molitor (37)	Molitor (21.5)				
10	Jud Wilson (10)**	J. Collins (14)	Rolen (9)	Traynor (16)	J. Collins (8.75)			
								D. Evans (16)

[Bothrops Atrox]

1. Mike Schmidt
2. Eddie Mathews
3. George Brett
4. Wade Boggs
5. Chipper Jones
6. Ron Santo
7. Frank Baker
8. Paul Molitor
9. Brooks Robinson
10.Edgar Martinez

Just missing out: Sal Bando, Scott Rolen, Ken Boyer, Jimmy Collins, Stan Hack

[BigRon]

That's a good list, Matthew. I think you got it right. I'll consider for a while, but my list probably will be the same.

[Nerdlinger]

1) Mike Schmidt - 10 pts
2) Eddie Mathews - 9 pts
3) Wade Boggs - 8 pts
4) George Brett - 7 pts
5) Chipper Jones - 6 pts
6) Paul Molitor - 5 pts
7) Brooks Robinson - 4 pts
8) Edgar Martinez - 3 pts
9) Ron Santo - 2 pts
10) Scott Rolen - 1 pt

[Bigfoot 88]

1-Mike Schimdt: 10 Points
2-Eddie Mathews: 9 Points
3-George Brett: 8 Points
4-Wade Boggs: 7 Points
5-Chipper Jones: 6 Points
6-Ron Santo: 5 Points
7-Paul Molitor: 4 Points
8-Scott Rolen: 3 Points
9-Brooks Robinson: 2 Points
10-Edgar Martinez: 1 Point


Frank Baker was great, but didn't do it long enough to satisfy me. I am of the opinion that while Brooks Robinson is a Hall of Famer, he has always been overrated. Despite playing 950 more games Robinson only has 3 WAR over Rolen. Brett-Boggs-Jones are pretty close, while Schimdt and Mathews are clear cut 1-2.

[leecemark]

1) Mike Schmidt
2) George Brett
3) Eddie Mathews
4) Wade Boggs
5) Chipper Jones
6) Home Run Baker
7) Ron Santo
8) Jimmy Collins
9) Brooks Robinson
10) Stan Hack

--Paul Molitor and Edgar Martinez were less of tirdbasemen than Harmon Killebrew or Dick Allen or Jim Thome who are all better players so I didn't think they belonged in the top 10.

[BigRon]

1) Mike Schmidt
2) George Brett
3) Eddie Mathews
4) Wade Boggs
5) Chipper Jones
6) Home Run Baker
7) Ron Santo
8) Jimmy Collins
9) Brooks Robinson
10) Stan Hack

--Paul Molitor and Edgar Martinez were less of tirdbasemen than Harmon Killebrew or Dick Allen or Jim Thome who are all better players so I didn't think they belonged in the top 10.

I don't disagree with your thinking, but since there's no DH spot these guys have to be ranked at some position. And, though Killebrew and Allen and Thome all played a fair amount at 3B, they are considered first basemen for this poll. So....

[leewileyfan]

I would have listed Alex Rodriguez in my top 3 among 3b-men; but the thread calls for him to be considered a SS.

1. Mike Schmidt [10]
2. Eddie Mathews [9]
3. George Brett [8]
4. Chipper Jones [7]
5. Wade Boggs [6]
6. Ron Santo [5]
7. Paul Molitor [4]
8. Stan Hack [3]
9. Al Rosen [2]
10. Gregg Nettles [1]

Rosen joined the Navy at 18 [1942] and served through part of 1946, beginning his career at 22 and waiting for a shot behind Ken Keltner. What he accomplished before hand, finger, back injuries and asthma interfered, was awesome, including a unanimous MVP choice.

Slots 9 and 10 have so many credible candidates: Harlond Clift, Bob Elliott, Freddie Lindstrom, Robin Ventura, Frank Baker, Ken Boyer, Pie Traynor, Brooks Robinson, George Kell, Ken Keltner and David Wright ... name only some of many more. Then too, if A-Rod were qualified, he'd be a sure shot for one of the top few spots.

Edited to insert Cecil Travis among the honorable mentions, omitted only because I was thinking of him at SS.

[NJRob65]

1. Mike Schmidt- 10 pts

2. Eddie Mathews- 9 pts.

3- George Brett- 8 pts.

4- Wade Boggs- 7 pt.

5. Chipper Jones- 6 pts.

6. Home Run Baker- 5 pts.

7- Ron Santo- 4 pts.

8- Scott Rolen- 3 pts.

9- Brooks Robinson- 2 pts.

10- Stan Hack- 1 pt.

Next five-

Buddy Bell

Graig Nettles

Ken Boyer

Darrell Evans

Jimmy Collins

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

1. Mike Schmidt- 10 pts
2. Eddie Mathews- 9 pts
3. George Brett- 8 pts
4. Wade Boggs- 7 pts
5. Chipper Jones- 6 pts
6. Ron Santo- 5 pts
7. Brooks Robinson- 4 pts
8. Frank Baker- 3 pts
9. Pie Traynor- 2 pts
10. Jimmy Collins- 1 pt

[pheasant]

1. Mike Schmidt
2. Eddie Mathews
3. George Brett
4. Chipper Jones
5. Wade Boggs
6. Ron Santo
7. Paul Molitor
8. Frank Baker
9. Scott Rolen,
10. Brooks Robinson

To me, Chipper Jones gives Eddie Mathews and George Brett a run for their money. Chipper played 150+ games 8 straight years from 1996-2003 while putting up an OPS+ of 145. His stats then were .313/.410/.551. This is quite impressive for Chipper in a very competitive era. However, Chipper is rather ordinary defensively, so I had to drop him to 4th. He was the 2nd person(behind Schmidt) that popped into my mind when I thought about great 3rd baseman.

[Bothrops Atrox]

With Chipper, it all depends on what you believe about his defense. Eye-witness testimony and brWAR and UZR all say that he was a little below average. Michael Humphry's system ans Tango's WOWY and SaberMatts PCA all say he was horrific. If you believe he was a little below average, 4th or 5th look pretty good. If you believe he was terrible, he would have a hard time cracking the top 7-8.

[SavoyBG]

With Chipper, it all depends on what you believe about his defense. Eye-witness testimony and brWAR and UZR all say that he was a little below average. Michael Humphry's system ans Tango's WOWY and SaberMatts PCA all say he was horrific. If you believe he was a little below average, 4th or 5th look pretty good. If you believe he was terrible, he would have a hard time cracking the top 7-8.

Eye witness testimony for me also says he was awful.

[Bothrops Atrox]

Eye witness testimony for me also says he was awful.

Yeah, that is how I remember him too, but I have talked to tons of people from Atlanta who mostly all say "a little to moderately below average" and very few say awful. Unfortunately, the different systems vary a lot with Jones too. One of the few players that the systems are in very little agreement. See: Jeter, D.

[SavoyBG]

Yeah, that is how I remember him too, but I have talked to tons of people from Atlanta who mostly all say "a little to moderately below average" and very few say awful.

I don't think most fans know that the difference between average and awful on a major league level is not all that much. Most Yankee fans will also tell you that Jeter was above average as a fielder, many will tell you that he was a great fielder. You can;t trust the opinions of fans.

A real bad fielder on a major league level is still much better than what you would see in some local semi-pro league, for instance.

That being said, I don't think Chipper's fielding should drop him from 4th to 8th. Maybe to 5th or 6th. Plus, Molitor is a DH, not a 3Bman.