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Greatest Player by Position: Round 9

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  • Greatest Player by Position: Round 9

    I thank everyone for their continued participation in my annual project. We have now finished right field, yielding the official 2012 results.

    Catchers
    1) Johnny Bench- 139 pts
    2) Yogi Berra- 124 pts
    3) Mike Piazza- 95 pts
    4) Mickey Cochrane- 90 pts
    5) Roy Campanella- 71 pts
    6) Ivan Rodriguez- 68 pts
    7) Gary Carter- 66 pts
    8) Carlton Fisk- 56 pts
    ---Bill Dickey- 56 pts
    10) Gabby Hartnett- 45 pts

    First base
    1) Lou Gehrig- 150 pts
    2) Jimmie Foxx- 132 pts
    3) Albert Pujols- 116 pts
    4) Jeff Bagwell- 88 pts
    5) Johnny Mize- 69 pts
    6) Hank Greenberg- 61 pts
    7) Frank Thomas- 50 pts
    8) Willie McCovey- 30 pts
    9) Cap Anson- 29 pts
    Dan Brouthers- 29 pts

    Second base-
    1) Rogers Hornsby- 139 pts
    2) Eddie Collins- 120 pts
    3) Joe Morgan- 110 pts
    4) Nap Lajoie- 102 pts
    5) Charlie Gehringer- 75 pts
    6) Jackie Robinson- 73 pts
    7) Rod Carew- 39 pts
    8) Frankie Frisch- 34 pts
    9) Roberto Alomar- 18 pts
    10) Craig Biggio- 15 pts
    -----Ryne Sandberg- 15 pts

    Third base-
    1) Mike Schmidt- 150 pts
    2) Eddie Mathews- 132 pts
    3) George Brett- 120 pts
    4) Wade Boggs- 104 pts
    5) Chipper Jones- 93 pts
    6) Ron Santo- 69 pts
    7) Brooks Robinson- 36 pts
    8) Frank Baker- 34 pts
    9) Paul Molitor- 28 pts
    10) Scott Rolen- 18 pts

    Shortstop-
    1) Honus Wagner- 160 pts
    2) Alex Rodriguez- 144 pts
    3) Arky Vaughan- 117 pts
    4) Cal Ripken- 113 pts
    5) Robin Yount- 83 pts
    6) Ernie Banks- 73 pts
    7) George Davis- 44 pts
    8) Derek Jeter- 42 pts
    9) Joe Cronin- 32 pts
    10) Barry Larkin- 31 pts

    Left field
    1) Ted Williams- 183 pts
    2) Barry Bonds- 173 pts
    3) Stan Musial- 153 pts
    4) Rickey Henderson- 133 pts
    5) Carl Yastrzemski- 108 pts
    6) Ed Delahanty- 57 pts
    7) Joe Jackson- 54 pts
    8) Al Simmons- 47 pts
    9) Pete Rose- 38 pts
    10) Manny Ramirez- 31 pts

    Center field
    1) Willie Mays- 144 pts
    2) Ty Cobb- 139 pts
    3) Mickey Mantle- 115 pts
    4) Tris Speaker- 107 pts
    5) Joe DiMagio- 90 pts
    6) Ken Griffey Jr.- 80 pts
    7) Duke Snider- 53 pts
    8) Billy Hamilton- 38 pts
    9) Jim Edmonds- 36 pts
    10) Richie Ashburn- 7 pts
    ----Kirby Puckett- 7 pts
    Right Field
    1. Babe Ruth- 180 pts
    2. Hank Aaron- 162 pts
    3. Frank Robinson- 141 pts
    4. Mel Ott- 124 pts
    5. Al Kaline- 81 pts
    6. Roberto Clemente- 73 pts
    7. Reggie Jackson- 66 pts
    8. Sam Crawford- 37 pts
    9. Tony Gwynn- 32 pts
    10. Vladimir Guerrero- 23 pts
    ------------------------------------
    But wait. There's more! In 2010, I added starting pitchers to the mix. The formula is the same as before, only this time I ask that you give your top fifteen because this position has the most players. Again, the same Negro League restrictions apply.

    Code:
    	2010			2011
    1	W. Johnson (206)	W. Johnson (204)
    2	Young (165)		Young (165)	
    3	Maddux (162)		Maddux (159)	
    4	Alexander (159)		Alexander (156)
    5	Grove (147)		Grove (153)	
    6	Seaver (121)		Clemens (124)	
    7	Clemens (115)		Seaver (123)	
    8	Mathewson (105)		Mathewson (118)
    9	R. Johnson (94)		R. Johnson (90)
    10	Spahn (82)		Spahn (83)	
    11	Page (81)**		Nichols (40)	
    12	P. Martinez (41)	Paige (38)**	
    13	Nichols (35)		Carlton (32)	
    14	Gibson (30)		Feller (31)	
    15	Feller (26)		Gibson (30)
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  • #2
    1. Walter Johnson - 15
    2. Lefty Grove - 14
    3. Greg Maddux - 13
    4. Cy Young - 12
    5. Pete Alexander - 11
    6. Tom Seaver - 10
    7. Christy Mathewson - 9
    8. Roger Clemens - 8
    9. Randy Johnson - 7
    10. Warren Spahn - 6
    11. Bob Feller - 5
    12. Steve Carlton - 4
    13. Kid Nichols - 3
    14. Pedro Martinez - 2
    15. Juan Marichal - 1

    tough call on 15 to replace Satchel Paige from my last list, Gibson, Hubbell and Koufax were also under consideration.

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Walter Johnson
      2. Greg Maddux
      3. Roger Clemens
      4. Cy Young
      5. Tom Seaver
      6. Lefty Grove
      7. Randy Johnson
      8. Pete Alexander
      9. Bob Gibson
      10. Christy Mathewson
      11. Warren Spahn
      12. Kid Nichols
      13. Pedro Martinez
      14. Bob Feller
      15. Steve Carlton
      "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

      - Alvin Dark

      Comment


      • #4
        1) Cy Young - 15 pts
        2) Walter Johnson - 14 pts
        3) Roger Clemens - 13 pts
        4) Pete Alexander - 12 pts
        5) Tom Seaver - 11 pts
        6) Kid Nichols - 10 pts
        7) Greg Maddux - 9 pts
        8) Lefty Grove - 8 pts
        9) Phil Niekro - 7 pts
        10) Bob Gibson - 6 pts
        11) Christy Mathewson - 5 pts
        12) Gaylord Perry - 4 pts
        13) Warren Spahn - 3 pts
        14) Randy Johnson - 2 pts
        15) Bert Blyleven - 1 pt
        Unwarranted snarky comment from Ron in 3, 2, 1....
        *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DJC View Post
          1) Cy Young - 15 pts
          2) Walter Johnson - 14 pts
          3) Roger Clemens - 13 pts
          4) Pete Alexander - 12 pts
          5) Tom Seaver - 11 pts
          6) Kid Nichols - 10 pts
          7) Greg Maddux - 9 pts
          8) Lefty Grove - 8 pts
          9) Phil Niekro - 7 pts
          10) Bob Gibson - 6 pts
          11) Christy Mathewson - 5 pts
          12) Gaylord Perry - 4 pts
          13) Warren Spahn - 3 pts
          14) Randy Johnson - 2 pts
          15) Bert Blyleven - 1 pt
          Unwarranted snarky comment from Ron in 3, 2, 1....
          DJC- that's cool, how did you do that? First, you're going to think I'm harrassing you. I promise I'm not, and I'm not going to make a bunch of "unwarranted snarky comments". Actually, I don't think I ever have done so to you, but....

          But, my serious question is: do you really believe Bert Blyleven is the 15th greatest pitcher in ML history? And why?

          There- I promise not to get into a back and forth with you. Just interested in your rationale on Blyleven.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BigRon View Post
            DJC- that's cool, how did you do that? First, you're going to think I'm harrassing you. I promise I'm not, and I'm not going to make a bunch of "unwarranted snarky comments". Actually, I don't think I ever have done so to you, but....

            But, my serious question is: do you really believe Bert Blyleven is the 15th greatest pitcher in ML history? And why?

            There- I promise not to get into a back and forth with you. Just interested in your rationale on Blyleven.
            Going by WAR, Blyleven has the 15th highest career value among MLB pitchers. The numbers are the best gauge I can think of to quantify the inherently unquantifiable quality of "greatness." That's all. I'm not here to put forth any authoritative statements as to who is the nth greatest pitcher ever.
            *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

            Comment


            • #7
              1. Walter Johnson
              2. Roger Clemens
              3. Cy Young
              4. Greg Maddux
              5. Pete Alexander
              6. Tom Seaver
              7. Lefty Grove
              8. Randy Johnson
              9. Christy Mathewson
              10. Warren Spahn
              11. Bob Gibson
              12. Kid Nichols
              13. Steve Carlton
              14. Pedro Martinez
              15. Bob Feller
              1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

              1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

              1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
              The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

              Comment


              • #8
                1-Walter Johnson: 15 Points
                2-Roger Clemens: 14 Points
                3-Greg Maddux: 13 Points
                4-Lefty Grove: 12 Points
                5-Cy Young: 11 Points
                6-Tom Seaver: 10 Points
                7-Randy Johnson: 9 Points
                8-Pete Alexander: 8 Points
                9-Christy Mathewson: 7 Points
                10-Warren Spahn: 6 Points
                11-Pedro Martinez: 5 Points
                12-Bob Feller: 4 Points
                13-Bob Gibson: 3 Points
                14-Sandy Koufax: 2 Points
                15-Steve Carlton: 1 Points
                Chop! Chop! Chop!

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are some hard choices- not so much in WHO are the top 15, but in what order.

                  1. Walter Johnson- too good for too long
                  2. Roger Clemens- no insinuations from me concerning use/non-use of PEDs
                  3. Grover Cleveland Alexander- remember, he lost a year at his great peak due to WW1
                  4. Lefty Grove- give him a little philosophical credit for a couple of years before he entered MLB- behind Alex only due to some durability issues
                  5. Greg Maddux
                  6. Cy Young- unequalled span of high level pitching
                  7. Tom Seaver
                  8. Christy Mathewson
                  9. Randy Johnson, just a hair ahead of
                  10. Warren Spahn- I think many younger BBFers have no understanding of how consistently good he was
                  11. Bob Feller- with some war credit- and no, I don't subscribe to the theory that the war years actually saved his arm
                  12. Bob Gibson
                  13. Pedro Martinez- relatively few IPs (per year as well as career) keep him from ranking higher
                  14. Kid Nichols- I've come to accept his greatness
                  15. Steve Carlton- the greatest pitcher to never throw the ball over the plate

                  Close behind: Hubbell, PNiekro, Roberts, Marichal, GPerry, Koufax, etc.

                  I could make arguments for any of my 2 through at least 6 pitchers to be re-ordered in any fashion. And, I might even include the top spot- I'm not 100% convinced that WJohnson is the top guy.
                  Last edited by BigRon; 03-06-2012, 07:26 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1. Walter johnson 15
                    2. Lefty Grove 14
                    3. Greg Maddux 13
                    4. Roger Clemens 12
                    5. Christy Mathewson 11
                    6. Pete Alexander 10
                    7. Randy Johnson 9
                    8. Pedro Martinez 8
                    9. Tom Seaver 7
                    10. Cy Young 6
                    11. Warren Spahn 5
                    12. Kid Nichols 4
                    13. Bob Gibson 3
                    14. Steve Carlton 2.....
                    15. Gaylord Perry 1....He won 15 games or more for 13 or 14 straight seasons and had a 96 war. I think he gets under rated sometimes.

                    Bob Feller and Carl Hubbell would be next.
                    Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 03-07-2012, 07:05 PM.
                    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      EDITED: 3-7-2012 ... Final and corrected:

                      Walter Johnson [15]
                      Pete Alexander [14]
                      Cy Young [13]
                      Roger Clemens [12]
                      Greg Maddux [11]
                      Warren Spahn [10]
                      Lefty Grove [9]
                      Randy Johnson [8]
                      Carl Hubbell [7]
                      Tom Seaver [6]
                      Bob Feller [5]
                      Pedro Martinez [4]
                      Juan Marichal [3]
                      Christy Mathewson [2]
                      Addie Joss [1]
                      Last edited by leewileyfan; 03-07-2012, 08:10 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Pete Alexander
                        Roger Clemens
                        Walter Johnson
                        Lefty Grove
                        Greg Maddux
                        Randy Johnson
                        Christy Mathewson
                        Cy Young
                        Tom Seaver
                        Pedro Martinez
                        Warren Spahn
                        Steve Carlton
                        Bob Gibson
                        Bob Feller

                        This to me was the toughest list to generate of them all by a longshot. I actually believe that the Big Train, Roger, Clemens, Cy Young, and Lefty Grove have the best resumes. However, I think the Big Train might suffer in today's game with his limited repertoire. Cy Young gets hit big for league quality. I personally like Pete Alexander the most due to his nifty control and his great adjustment to the Live Ball era despite being a broken down epiletic drunk. He had quite the repertoire of pitches. Overall, I think we are splitting atoms here among the top 8 spots or so.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          1. Walter Johnson- 15 pts.

                          2- Roger Clemens- 14 pts.

                          3- Cy Young- 13 pts.

                          4- Grover Cleveland Alexander- 12 pts.

                          5- Christy Mathewson- 11 pts

                          6- Greg Maddux-10 pts.

                          7- Lefty Grove- 9 pts,

                          8- Randy Johnson- 8 pts.

                          9- Tom Seaver- 7 pts.

                          10- Kid Nichols- 6 pts.

                          11- Waren Spahn- 5 pts.

                          12- Pedro Martinez-4 pts

                          13- Carl Hubbell-3 pts.

                          14- Phil Niekro-2 pts.

                          15- Gaylord Perry- 1 pt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1 Walter Johnson
                            2 Pedro Martinez
                            3 Randy Johnson
                            4 Three Finger Brown
                            5 Christy Matthewson
                            6 Pete Alexander
                            7 Roger Clemens
                            8 Cy Young
                            9 Whitey Ford
                            10 Bob Gibson
                            11 Tom Seaver
                            12 Warren Spahn
                            13 Lefty Grove
                            14 CC Sabathia
                            15 Roy Halladay

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BigRon View Post
                              3. Grover Cleveland Alexander- remember, he lost a year at his great peak due to WW1
                              The war messed him up for life. Something with the artillery. Hurt is brain, made him drink more. Ruined him.
                              "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                              Comment

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