Greatest Player By Position: Round 10 (Final)

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Starting pitchers went smoothly
1) Walter Johnson- 248 pts
2) Cy Young- 208 pts
3) Greg Maddux- 196 pts
4) Roger Clemens- 193 pts
5) Pete Alexander- 186 pts
6) Lefty Grove- 185 pts
7) Randy Johnson- 144 pts
8) Tom Seaver- 136 pts
9) Christy Mathewson- 129 pts
10) Warren Spahn- 94 pts
11) Pedro Martinez- 82 pts
12) Kid Nichols- 53 pts
13) Bb Gibson- 42 pts
14) Bob Feller- 41 pts
15) Steve Carlton- 30 pts


And just when you thought we were done, there's one more! Relievers, which I started just last year, goes back to ten slots instead of fifteen. Please also consider their accomplishments as a starter if applicable. I consider someone a reliever if he relieved in 60% of their games pitched.

	2011
1	Rivera (169)
2	Wilhelm (131)
3	Gossage (119)
4	Eckersley (107)
5	Hoffman (85)
6	Wagner (73)
7	Fingers (65)
8	L. Smith (39)
9	Sutter (34)
10	Quisenberry (33)

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

1. Mariano Rivera- 10 pts
2. Hoyt Wilhelm- 9 pts
3. Goose Gossage- 8 pts
4. Rollie Fingers- 7 pts
5. Billy Wagner- 6 pts
6. Trevor Hoffman- 5 pts
7. Dennis Eckersley- 4 pts
8. Lee Smith- 3 pts
9. Dan Quiz- 2 pts
10. John Franco- 1 pt

[chicagowhitesox1173]

1. Mariano Rivera
2. Hoyt Wilhelm
3. Billy Wagner-This guy gets underrated and I never understood why. his career era+ 187,whip 0.998 and kper9 (11.9) are outstanding. With 422 saves.
4. Rich Gossage
5. Dennis Eckersley
6. Dan Quisenberry
7. Trevor Hoffman
8. John Franco
9. Lee Smith
10. Bruce Sutter

[Nerdlinger]

1) Dennis Eckersley - 10 pts
2) Mariano Rivera - 9 pts
3) Rich Gossage - 8 pts
4) Hoyt Wilhelm - 7 pts
5) Tom Gordon - 6 pts
6) Bobby Shantz - 5 pts
7) Trevor Hoffman - 4 pts
8) Lee Smith - 3 pts
9) Billy Wagner - 2 pts
10) Firpo Marberry - 1 pt

[brett]

1) Rivera
2) Eckersley
3) Wilhelm
4) Goddage
5) Hoffman
6) Smith
7) Franco
8) Wagner
9) Fingers
10) Quisenberry

[chicagowhitesox1173]

1) Rivera
2) Eckersley
3) Wilhelm
4) Goddage
5) Hoffman
6) Smith
7) Franco
8) Wagner
9) Fingers
10) Quisenberry

who is goddage? redited it's gossage i wasnt thinking.

[Bothrops Atrox]

1) Rivera
2) Eckersley
3) Wilhelm
4) Gossage
5) Hoffman
6) Smith
7) Wagner
8) Franco
9) Fingers
10) Quisenberry

[leewileyfan]

The relief role has become so specialized over the last 30 or so years that we tend to forget there were guys who very nearly specialized in relief as far back as just before WW II. Then a few careers, some with late starts to begin with, got sidetracked by military service. One guy that comes to mind in on my list, not as any kind of joke, but because I was lucky enough to have seen him, in relief, on a few occasions. He didn't knock the bats out of the hitters hands; but he was a master at control and inducing ground balls, lazy fly balls and pop-ups.

Mariano Rivera [10]
Billy Wagner [9]
Hoyt Wilhelm [8]
Tom Henke [7]
Rob Dibble [6]
Dan Quisenberry [5]
Bruce Sutter [4]
Kent Tekulve [3]
Don McMahon [2]
Gordon Maltzberger [1]

Notes: For a 5 season stretch, Rob Dibble was darn near scary to watch; he DID seem to knock that bats out of hitters' hands. His work in the 1990 WS was icing on the cake.

Ted Wilks and Tom Ferrick were outstanding relievers early on; and I was tempted to list them - BUT to do so would have been at odds with the realities of specialization today.

Others were tough to omit, like Bobby Shantz, Sparky Lyle, John Wetteland, Mike Reardon, and Keith Foulke. Guys like Eckersley, Fingers and Gossage, great as they were, gobbled up all the media headlines anyhow, so what the heck?

It was also hard to drop Emil "Dutch" Leonard, whose career spanned over 20 seasons [mostly with losing clubs] winding up as an ace reliever.

[BigRon]

Rob Dibble [6]
Notes: For a 5 season stretch, Rob Dibble was darn near scary to watch; he DID seem to knock that bats out of hitters' hands. His work in the 1990 WS was icing on the cake.

Dibble had several very good, intimidating seasons but I think his body of work falls far short of the top tier. In terms of intimidation, the one guy who stands out the most to me was Dick "Monster" Radatz, who was overwhelming for 3 or 4 years in the mid-60s. He struck out guys at a Dibble-like rate in a lower strikeout era, AND he was often pitching 2 or more innings at a time! But, like so many, he burned his arm out.

[leewileyfan]

Well, it's just a public forum and it won't effect the status of the cosmos a whole lot; so I figured I'd name the MOST DOMINATING pitcher I EVER saw. That, hands-down and no close secinds was prime Rob Dibble.

It wasn't as if Dibble was a one year flash in the pan: he was fiercely dominant for five seasons and put some icing on it with a typical performance in a World Series that his team won. He was eye-popping fast; and the bad-boy reputation did little to discount his intimidation factor.

Likewise, with Gordon Maltzberger, here was a guy, even at the time he was playing, some discounted as a "wartime" pitcher. He served in the War. He had a late start; did his time; and faced both Wartime and non-Wartime competition ... I saw him in both.

Not to make too big a deal of this; but polls like this [for me] become much more informative and enjoyable, when someone hits me with a surprise entry I had overlooked. It may not change even one opinion. It may no even offer a single soul an "aha - I never heard of him!" moment; BUT, when I spot it, I appreciate it.

If "Maltzy" disturbed anyone, my "tied for # 10 entry" would be Wetteland.

Just as a post script, a few examples of pitchers [starters in this instance] who were superb against very tough batting climates, are largely forgotten today because of abbreviated careers. Yet none of these was a flash-in-the-pan, overnight sensation. Some got late starts. Some got late starts and got called to military service. Some had either or both or these and developed sore arms.

To name just a few, Spud Chandler, Mort Cooper, Harry Brecheen and Tex Hughson, in peak form, would have been a tough starting opponent for any "greats" always listed in Top 100 or Top 50 lists.

Just once in a while, it's nice to see them respectfully remembered for what they did do, rather than be forgotten for what they didn't do due to abbreviated careers.

It's not just that "model" either. There are quite a few extraordinary pitchers who toiled long and well with losing clubs, who get buried in "mediocrity" which turn out to be less so under deeper scrutiny.

[leewileyfan]

After my post above, I just realized that I, too, am prone to forgetting a great one, who qualified as a STARTER and a RELIEVER, leaving him off BOTH lists. I am thinking he belongs; but I'll let it stand as I reminder against complacency.

I left out John Smoltz.

[pheasant]

Mo Rivera
Wagner
Trevor Hoffman
Wilhelm
Henke
John Franco
The Quiz
Lee Smith
Eck
the Goose

Had Babe Ruth taken much better care of himself(like Gehrig did), then he might have dominated his position as much as Mo Rivera dominated his. Mo Rivera is a modern day freak of nature.

[pheasant]

Mo Rivera gets the award for the most clutch playoff performer too. He beats the Babe again.

Mo Rivera 141 IP, 0.70 era, 8-1, 42 saves, .759 WHIP

Ruth with Sox 31 IP, 3-0 record, 0.87 era
Ruth with Yankees 36 games, 37 runs, 33 BB, 15 HR, 30 RBI, .347/.494/.788/1.282

[PVNICK]

1-Rivera
2-Wilhelm
3-Gossage
4-Hoffman
5-Sutter
6-Fingers
7-Lee Smith
8-Eckersley
9-Wagner
10-Quisenberry

[NJRob65]

1-Mariano Rivera- 10 pts.

2-Dennis Eckersley-9 pts.

3- Trevor Hoffman-8 pts.

4- Billy Wagner- 7 pts.

5- Hoyt Wilhelm-6 pts.

6- Goose Gossage-5 pts

7- Bruce Sutter- 4 pts.

8- Tom Henke- 3 pts

9- Dan Quisenberry-2 pts.

10- Lee Smith- 1 pt.