2004 Cardinals - Best Trio of Position Players on one Team in Major League History?

[GiambiJuice]

I think the 2004 Cardinals may have had the greatest trio of position players of any single season in Major League history. These players were, of course, Albert Pujols, Jim Edmonds, and Scott Rolen.

They all had incredible seasons at the plate:

Pujols .331/.415/.657, 46 HR, 123 RBI, 133 R
Edmonds .301/.418/.643, 42 HR, 111 RBI, 102 R
Rolen .314/.409/.598, 34 HR, 124 RBI, 109 R

A quick search reveals that...

The 2004 Cardinals are one of only 4 teams in ML history to have 3 players with a 1.000 or higher OPS ('29 Cubs, '96 Mariners, '00 Astros are the others).

The 2004 Cardinals are one of only 4 teams in ML history to have 3 players each achieve a .300 batting average, with at least 30 HR, 100 RBI , and 100 runs scored. (The others are the '29 Phillies, '53 Dodgers, and '96 Rockies)

The 2004 Cardinals are one of only 3 teams in ML history to have 3 players with at least a 157 OPS+. (The others are the '29 Yanks with Ruth, Gehrig, and Lazzeri and the '63 Giants with Mays, McCovey, and Cepeda).

The 2004 Cardinals are the only team in ML history to have 3 players with 8 WAR or higher. (Pujols was at 9.4, Rolen at 9.2 and Edmonds at 8.4). Only four other teams even had three players with 7+ WAR.

I suppose an argument could be made for the 1927 Yankees, the 1963 Giants, and perhaps some other trios, but I think what sets the 2004 Cardinals apart is that besides for performing spectacularly well at the plate, all three players played spectacular defense as well at their respective positions. Pujols, Rolen, and Edmonds each have excellent defensive reputations, and as far as I know all three are considered all-time greats defensively at their respective positions (1B, CF, and 3B) so 2004 was certainly no fluke.

I'm sure there could be some other trios that I am overlooking... I'm hoping this can start a discussion, but I think the 2004 Cardinals take the cake as the greatest trio of position players in Baseball history.

[StanTheMan]

I knew they were good, and had a blast watching them, but Wow! All time classic trio good? Looks like it.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I think that was the best Cardinal team ever. If they had won that year they woulda been a top 10 of alltime.

[willshad]

I had a simllar post some time last year, when i asked if the cardinals had the best 3-4-5 trio in history with Pujols, Holliday, and Berkman. The responses were against it. The bottom line is, that Ruth, Gehrig and anybody else (Lazzeri, Combs, Meusel) will crush them, simply because of how good Ruth and Gehrig were. I also think the 1937 Yankee trio of Dickey, Gehrig and Dimaggio were superior. Rolen may be = to Dickey, but for sure Gehrig>Pujols and Dimaggio> Edmonds. The Tigers in 1937 also match up well , with York, Gehringer, and Greenberg.

York (catcher) 35 103 .307 .375 .651 151 OPS+
Gehringer ( MVP) 14 96 .371 .458 .520 144 OPS+
Greenberg 40 183 .337 .436 .668 172 OPS+

[Blackout]

ill take 1927 Ruth/Gehrig/Lazzeri

[KCGHOST]

When it takes Ruth & Gehrig to beat you then you know you are pretty special.

[bluesky5]

Huh, they traded Edmonds for Freese. I wonder if Matheny knows enough about the Cardinals personnel and can successfully gel with the team lol. Look at that Molina and Ray Lankford on the same team. I saw a picture of Matheny and Red Schoendienst on the cart watching practice. Awesome.

[dgarza]

The 2004 Cardinals are the only team in ML history to have 3 players with 8 WAR or higher. (Pujols was at 9.4, Rolen at 9.2 and Edmonds at 8.4). Only four other teams even had three players with 7+ WAR.

1961 Tigers came close:
Cash 10.0
Kaline 8.3
Colavito 7.9

The 154 game schedule equivalent is 7.6 WAR.
The 1929 Yankees had 3 player with 7.6 WAR :
Ruth 8.2
Lazzeri 7.8
Gehrig 7.6

Still, I think the 2005 Cards top the 1929 Yanks.

[GiambiJuice]

1961 Tigers came close:
Cash 10.0
Kaline 8.3
Colavito 7.9

The 154 game schedule equivalent is 7.6 WAR.
The 1929 Yankees had 3 player with 7.6 WAR :
Ruth 8.2
Lazzeri 7.8
Gehrig 7.6

Still, I think the 2005 Cards top the 1929 Yanks.

Great observation. What makes it even more impressive is that none of the three Cardinals played more than 154 games in 2004. Rolen achieved his 9.2 WAR and the 30/100/100 in only 142 games. Imagine what he would've done with 20 more games... Probably gone over 10 WAR, which is pretty rarified air.

[dgarza]

Other teams with 3 "8.0 WAR"-equivalent players (based on season/schedule length) :

Since the NA teams played unequal number of games, it's hard to pinpoint how to handle the cutoff WAR, but going by total number of games each team players (which were all different), several teams might qualify.

1876 Chicago White Stockings
Schedule as uneven as the NA, but given the number of games played, the WS still make the grade.
8.0 = 3.2 WAR
Ross Barnes - 7.4
Cap Anson - 4.2
Deacon White - 4.0
John Peters - 3.7

1880 Chicago White Stockings
8.0 = 4.1 WAR
Cap Anson - 5.2
George Gore - 5.2
Abner Dalrymple - 4.1

1881 Chicago White Stockings
8.0 = 4.1 WAR
Cap Anson - 5.1
Ned Williamson - 4.9
George Gore - 4.2

1895 Philadelphia Phillies
8.0 = 6.5 WAR
Ed Delahanty - 7.5
Billy Hamilton - 6.6
Sam Thompson - 6.5

[Bothrops Atrox]

Other teams with 3 "8.0 WAR"-equivalent players (based on season/schedule length) :

Since the NA teams played unequal number of games, it's hard to pinpoint how to handle the cutoff WAR, but going by total number of games each team players (which were all different), several teams might qualify.

1876 Chicago White Stockings
Schedule as uneven as the NA, but given the number of games played, the WS still make the grade.
8.0 = 3.2 WAR
Ross Barnes - 7.4
Cap Anson - 4.2
Deacon White - 4.0
John Peters - 3.7

1880 Chicago White Stockings
8.0 = 4.1 WAR
Cap Anson - 5.2
George Gore - 5.2
Abner Dalrymple - 4.1

1881 Chicago White Stockings
8.0 = 4.1 WAR
Cap Anson - 5.1
Ned Williamson - 4.9
George Gore - 4.2

1895 Philadelphia Phillies
8.0 = 6.5 WAR
Ed Delahanty - 7.5
Billy Hamilton - 6.6
Sam Thompson - 6.5

If we adjust for season length, shouldn't we also adjust for the fact that it may be easier to accumulate value over replacement in less-talented leagues?

[Bothrops Atrox]

The 2004 team was special. They were about .500 in June, then went off like nobody's business until September when Carpenter got hurt (sound familiar) and they kinda coasted. Of course the Red Sox had more hitting depth and two #1 starters, where with Carp out, the Cards had about four #3 starters. I knew they were doomed when they couldn't pull off that game 1 sluggfest vs. Wakefield.

It was a real shame that The Series went on over in the Junior Circut in 2004 at the same time as the NLCS, which would have gone down as an all time great series...if anyone remembered it. Seven games. Two walkoffs on back-to-back games. Edmond's catch in game 7,. Suppan out-pitching Clemens, etc. And the talent: Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, Walker, Renteria, Carpenter, Bagwell, Biggio, Berkman, Kent, Beltran, Clemens, Pettitte, Oswalt. Whew!

[willshad]

It can be dangerous to only use WAR in such comparisons, as sometimes its results are downright silly. I was checking the WAR totals of the 1937 Tiger's players, and noticed that York only had 3.3 (!) WAR that season, in what was a borderline historic season at his position. True, he only played 2/3 of season, but he was on pace for about 52 home runs and 150 RBI. His slugging percentage was .651. This is from the catcher spot. I'd put that season up against the 2004 season of any of the three Cardinals' players.