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Shawn Green vs Juan Gonzalez

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  • Shawn Green vs Juan Gonzalez

    I'm going to run a series of polls with the winner advancing each time to face another opponent. Will leave each poll up for a week. I'll try to provide as much statistical information as possible. Hopefully we can get some lively insightful debates going and bring to light some overlooked players from yesteryear.
    If you could pick between these two players to start your franchise with which would you pick? Please consider all relavent information. Their careers as a whole, peak performance, hitting, fielding, baserunning, positional value, league quality, etc.

    Shawn Green

    1951 games
    7963 plate appearances
    7082 at-bats
    1129 runs
    2003 hits
    445 doubles
    35 triples
    328 home runs
    1070 RBI
    162 stolen bases
    52 caught stealing
    744 walks
    1315 strikeouts
    .283 AVG
    .355 OBP
    .494 SLG
    .850 OPS
    120 OPS+
    3502 total bases
    1251 runs created
    6.2 RC/G
    109 AIR
    .590 OW%
    .836 Total Average
    .332 Secondary Average
    250.8 Win Shares
    108.2 WSAB
    40.5 WARP1
    41.5 WARP3
    29.4 rWAR
    34.9 fWAR
    32.8 sWAR

    Juan Gonzalez

    1689 games
    7155 plate appearances
    6556 at-bats
    1061 runs
    1936 hits
    388 doubles
    25 triples
    434 home runs
    1404 RBI
    26 stolen bases
    19 caught stealing
    457 walks
    1273 strikeouts
    .295 AVG
    .343 OBP
    .561 SLG
    .904 OPS
    132 OPS+
    3676 total bases
    1222 runs created
    6.7 RC/G
    108 AIR
    .623 OW%
    .871 Total Average
    .336 Secondary Average
    233.1 Win Shares
    113.1 WSAB
    33.5 WARP1
    36.8 WARP3
    33.5 rWAR
    38.6 fWAR
    33.3 sWAR

    Previous results

    Willie Montanez vs Dave Kingman
    Dave Kingman vs Dante Bichette
    Dave Kingman vs Jose Guillen
    Dave Kingman vs Dave Philley
    Dave Kingman vs Shano Collins
    Dave Kingman vs Eric Karros
    Dave Kingman vs Charlie Grimm
    Charlie Grimm vs Juan Gonzalez
    Juan Gonzalez vs Bill Buckner
    Juan Gonzalez vs Ruben Sierra
    Juan Gonzalez vs Gee Walker
    Juan Gonzalez vs Patsy Donovan
    Juan Gonzalez vs Joe Carter
    Juan Gonzalez vs Tommy Davis
    Juan Gonzalez vs Charlie Jamieson
    Juan Gonzalez vs Jeff Conine
    Juan Gonzalez vs Hal Chase
    Juan Gonzalez vs Lee May
    Juan Gonzalez vs Joe Kuhel
    Juan Gonzalez vs Willie Horton
    Juan Gonzalez vs Chris Chambliss
    Juan Gonzalez vs Hal McRae
    Juan Gonzalez vs Andres Galarraga
    Juan Gonzalez vs George Hendrick
    Juan Gonzalez vs Garret Anderson
    Juan Gonzalez vs George Burns
    Juan Gonzalez vs Wally Moses
    Juan Gonzalez vs Del Ennis
    Juan Gonzalez vs Don Baylor
    8
    Shawn Green
    37.50%
    3
    Juan Gonzalez
    62.50%
    5

    The poll is expired.

    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

  • #2
    I have Gonzalez over Green, although it's somewhat close. Gonzalez had a career 33.5 WAR in 7155 PA whereas Green had a 29.4 career WAR in 7963 PA.

    In OPS+ in 100+ game seasons, let's see how their best ones play out:

    Gonzalez 169 149 148 145 141 133 131 121 115 104
    Sh Green 154 154 143 116 116 116 115 114 113 110

    For best WAR,

    Gonzalez 6.7 5.1 4.7 3.5 2.8 2.7 2.4 2.0 1.6 1.3
    Sh Green 7.1 6.9 5.9 3.1 2.8 1.6 1.5 0.7 0.6 0.1

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by pheasant View Post
      I have Gonzalez over Green, although it's somewhat close. Gonzalez had a career 33.5 WAR in 7155 PA whereas Green had a 29.4 career WAR in 7963 PA.

      In OPS+ in 100+ game seasons, let's see how their best ones play out:

      Gonzalez 169 149 148 145 141 133 131 121 115 104
      Sh Green 154 154 143 116 116 116 115 114 113 110

      For best WAR,

      Gonzalez 6.7 5.1 4.7 3.5 2.8 2.7 2.4 2.0 1.6 1.3
      Sh Green 7.1 6.9 5.9 3.1 2.8 1.6 1.5 0.7 0.6 0.1
      Surprising how close it is. Especially in terms of WAR. Shawn Green was a much better player than many fans realize. That said yes I agree that Juan Gonzalez was clearly the better of the two players.
      My dream ballpark dimensions
      LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
      RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
      Location....San Diego

      Comment


      • #4
        I have come to the conclusion that Juan Gonzalez was considerably better than a significant number of players who were notably worse than him.

        Comment


        • #5
          This isn't really that close. Their top 3 seasons are relatively close, but that's about all Green has. Juan Gone has several more really good seasons to his credit. Both guys declined suddenly and surprisingly....I thought for a while Gonzalez would be a hall of famer, and that Green would be a superstar. After 2002 Green appeared to be emerging as a huge star, but then at age 30 he fell of a cliff. I still remember he had perhaps the most impressive three game stretch in baseball history, when he went something like 11-13 with seven home runs and 14 RBI in a three game stretch in 2002.

          Comment


          • #6
            I went with Green because I think it's very likely that Juan Gone was a PED user and it's likely that Green was not.
            I certainly don't know for either man, but I voted based upon my perceptions.
            "If I drink whiskey, I'll never get worms!" - Hack Wilson

            Comment

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