Gary Sheffield vs Manny Ramirez

[fenrir]

We can directly compare both of these players since both are known juicers. It seems to me that Manny has always been more highly regarded than Sheffield, but perhaps they are closer than one would think. Just a quick look at the stats shows Manny to have been the better hitter, however Manny's best seasons when you look at stats like OPS+ seemed to occur in less games played.


Top five for both:

Sheffield:

1. 189 OPS+ in 161 games
2. 176 OPS+ in 141 games
3. 170 OPS+ in 146 games
4. 164 OPS+ in 143 games
5. 162 OPS+ in 155 games

Manny:

1. 186 OPS+ in 118 games
2. 184 OPS+ in 120 games
3. 173 OPS+ in 147 games
4. 165 OPS+ in 153 games
5. 165 OPS+ in 130 games


It's close, but does the fact that Sheffield played more games in his best years give him the edge over Manny? I think so. Sheffield also walked more, and struck out less. Both are considered to be below average fielders, however Sheffield could also steal some bases.

Who do you take here?

[Jackaroo Dave]

What uberstat d'ya read?

Career WOBA .417 to .392, Manny, and not close.

(But I agree with the thrust of the comparison: Sheffield is way underrated and now dismissed as a juicer. Like Manny, he is one very scary hitter.)

[willshad]

Sheffield tops Manny in his top 3 or so seasons, but he had a few injury/off years in there too. Manny was more consistent, and is a notch above overall. A better comparison would be Sheffield and Chipper Jones.

[fenrir]

Sheffield tops Manny in his top 3 or so seasons, but he had a few injury/off years in there too. Manny was more consistent, and is a notch above overall. A better comparison would be Sheffield and Chipper Jones.

Sheffield may have been more injury prone, but he still played in 200+ more games than Manny.

[willshad]

True, but his OPS+ is about 15 points lower..pretty significant.

[fenrir]

I agree that Manny over the course of his career has been the better hitter, but I don't think he's been way better. At his peak, Sheffield was slightly more dominate, and he could steal some bases as well. Also, a poor defensive right fielder>>a poor defensive left fielder.

[ol' aches and pains]

A pretty even matchup, they were surprisingly similar. I guess it comes down to which one had the better steroids.

[Dude Paskert]

Sheffield's reputation was hurt by the fact that he was a loud, arrogant jerk...Manny's was helped by the fact that he was a quiet jerk.
Up until the end of his career, Manny came across as a goofy, clueless, kind of funny guy. He cut off throws by other outfielders, tripped and did somersaults while trying to catch the ball, went and peed inside the Monster. This stuff was mostly seen as being cute, plus he pounded the cover off the ball.
Sheffield also pounded the cover off the ball, but also claimed to have thrown balls away intentionally to try to get the Brewers to trade him, said stupid things like he was always the best player on any team he had been on (this was when he was with the Yanks and had some impressive teammates), and was always viewed as brooding and threatening. One thing that I think hurt Gary's reputation immensely was that he had an off year when the Marlins won the WS in '97. He had a monster year in '96 and they finished under .500, then he hit .250 in '97 and they won it all. Not necessarily very meaningful, but it gave the average fan the impression that he wasn't that important to the team's success.

I see them as being very similar, Manny was a little more consistent with the bat but Gary had a better overall game. Manny proved in the end that he was just as big a jerk as Sheffield, he just managed to hide it for a while.

[Blackout]

WTF is the point of putting "Both are equal" if you are going to try to do a poll?




i go Manny

[SamtheBravesFan]

It's not a crime to think they're essentially equal, and no oversized emoticon is going to change anyone's mind, dude. :P

[redban]

Career-wise, Manny was more consistent. Sheffield had a batch of injury seasons scattered throughout his, especially early on.

But both were similar. Two corner outfielders who could hit for average and power.

Overall, I like Sheffield more. His SB ability and AB/SO ratio give him a bit of an edge, and though he was no Gold Glover, he was a better fielder than Manny.

Another thing that should be considered is the leagues they played in. Manny spent his entire career in the AL, on some juggernaut offensive teams in Cleveland and Boston. Playing in those really strong lineups might have aided Manny's numbers a bit.

[dominik]

Sheffield's reputation was hurt by the fact that he was a loud, arrogant jerk...Manny's was helped by the fact that he was a quiet jerk.
Up until the end of his career, Manny came across as a goofy, clueless, kind of funny guy. He cut off throws by other outfielders, tripped and did somersaults while trying to catch the ball, went and peed inside the Monster. This stuff was mostly seen as being cute, plus he pounded the cover off the ball.
Sheffield also pounded the cover off the ball, but also claimed to have thrown balls away intentionally to try to get the Brewers to trade him, said stupid things like he was always the best player on any team he had been on (this was when he was with the Yanks and had some impressive teammates), and was always viewed as brooding and threatening. One thing that I think hurt Gary's reputation immensely was that he had an off year when the Marlins won the WS in '97. He had a monster year in '96 and they finished under .500, then he hit .250 in '97 and they won it all. Not necessarily very meaningful, but it gave the average fan the impression that he wasn't that important to the team's success.

I see them as being very similar, Manny was a little more consistent with the bat but Gary had a better overall game. Manny proved in the end that he was just as big a jerk as Sheffield, he just managed to hide it for a while.

yeah. manny was viewed as the donald duck kind of idiot (fool) while sheffield was more viewed as the adolf hitler kind of idiot (evil).

overall manny was a better hitter of course. sheffield had a a few seasons that matched well against mannys best but manny was more consistent.

Career OPS+
Manny Sheffield
154 140

[brett]

They may be the 2 worst CAREER fielders in baseball history considering performance and position. They both would have scored higher in WAR if they had been career DHs which is very rare. Considering defense they are both borderline hall of famers without considering steroids. Maybe slightly high borderline, but not as good as Larry Walker or Jim Edmonds who I would put right at the top of the borderline margin.

[redban]

yeah. manny was viewed as the donald duck kind of idiot (fool) while sheffield was more viewed as the adolf hitler kind of idiot (evil).

overall manny was a better hitter of course. sheffield had a a few seasons that matched well against mannys best but manny was more consistent.

Career OPS+
Manny Sheffield
154 140

But shouldn't you consider the leagues they played in?

Aside from his years with NYY and DET later on, Sheffield was a National League player.

On the other hand, Manny played in the AL, for Cleveland and Boston, two powerhouse offensive teams. In fact, the Cleveland teams Manny played on set a bunch of offensive records, if I remember right. Wouldn't that help his numbers a little bit?

[brett]

But shouldn't you consider the leagues they played in?

Aside from his years with NYY and DET later on, Sheffield was a National League player.

On the other hand, Manny played in the AL, for Cleveland and Boston, two powerhouse offensive teams. In fact, the Cleveland teams Manny played on set a bunch of offensive records, if I remember right. Wouldn't that help his numbers a little bit?

Not his OPS+. It might slightly bump up his WAR because you get to bat more times on a good offensive team.