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2003 Cardinals Greatest Outfield Ever?

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  • 2003 Cardinals Greatest Outfield Ever?

    Or at least since the last 25 years?

    You rarely hear about the Edmonds, Drew and Pujols outfield of the early 2000s how does it stack up?
    Last edited by BondsOverBabe; 04-18-2012, 03:05 AM.

  • #2
    Since 1945, teams with three players OPS+ 130+, 53+ G at an OF position, and 100+ G played
    Code:
    Rk   Year                    Tm Lg                                                           #Matching
    1    1978     Milwaukee Brewers AL         4 Larry Hisle / Sixto Lezcano / Ben Oglivie / Gorman Thomas
    2    2003   St. Louis Cardinals NL         3                   J.D. Drew / Jim Edmonds / Albert Pujols
    3    1990    Pittsburgh Pirates NL         3              Barry Bonds / Bobby Bonilla / Andy Van Slyke
    4    1988        Boston Red Sox AL         3               Ellis Burks / Dwight Evans / Mike Greenwell
    5    1986      San Diego Padres NL         3                 Tony Gwynn / John Kruk / Kevin McReynolds
    6    1982     California Angels AL         3                Brian Downing / Reggie Jackson / Fred Lynn
    7    1979     Milwaukee Brewers AL         3               Sixto Lezcano / Ben Oglivie / Gorman Thomas
    8    1976 Philadelphia Phillies NL         3              Jay Johnstone / Greg Luzinski / Garry Maddox
    9    1974    Pittsburgh Pirates NL         3                 Al Oliver / Willie Stargell / Richie Zisk
    10   1972        Houston Astros NL         3                      Cesar Cedeno / Bob Watson / Jim Wynn
    11   1971     Baltimore Orioles AL         3             Don Buford / Merv Rettenmund / Frank Robinson
    12   1963       Minnesota Twins AL         3              Bob Allison / Jimmie Hall / Harmon Killebrew
    13   1963 Philadelphia Phillies NL         3           Johnny Callison / Wes Covington / Tony Gonzalez
    14   1959     Cleveland Indians AL         3            Rocky Colavito / Tito Francona / Minnie Minoso
    15   1953      Brooklyn Dodgers NL         3              Carl Furillo / Jackie Robinson / Duke Snider
    16   1952      New York Yankees AL         3                Hank Bauer / Mickey Mantle / Gene Woodling
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

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    • #3
      With Rolen and Renteria having great seasons, that offense was a juggernaut. Too bad the pitching was so awful.
      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

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      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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      • #4
        287 AB for JD Drew is hardly even mentioning as a full time OF


        1963 Giants
        Mays 175 OPS+ in 157 games
        McCovey 161 OPS+ in 152 games
        Alou 127 OPS+ in 157 games

        2003 Cards
        Pujols 187 in 157 games
        Edmonds 160 in only 137 games
        Drew 132 in only 100 games

        I think the top two for each team is basically a draw a few more OPS+ points for STL, more games played for SF

        but I would rather have a 127 for 157 games than a 132 for 100 games every day of the week
        1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
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        • #5
          Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
          287 AB for JD Drew is hardly even mentioning as a full time OF


          1963 Giants
          Mays 175 OPS+ in 157 games
          McCovey 161 OPS+ in 152 games
          Alou 127 OPS+ in 157 games

          2003 Cards
          Pujols 187 in 157 games
          Edmonds 160 in only 137 games
          Drew 132 in only 100 games

          I think the top two for each team is basically a draw a few more OPS+ points for STL, more games played for SF

          but I would rather have a 127 for 157 games than a 132 for 100 games every day of the week
          I would agree with that.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • #6
            As so often happens in these discussions, too much focus on one stat- in this case OPS+. McCovey was a lethal hitter in 1963, but he was a poor outfielder, and that may be charitable. He couldn't run, didn't throw well, and was barely adequate as a flycatcher. Factor in the realities of his defense- not the DWAR "data"- and the 63 Giants OF slides down a notch.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BigRon View Post
              As so often happens in these discussions, too much focus on one stat- in this case OPS+. McCovey was a lethal hitter in 1963, but he was a poor outfielder, and that may be charitable. He couldn't run, didn't throw well, and was barely adequate as a flycatcher. Factor in the realities of his defense- not the DWAR "data"- and the 63 Giants OF slides down a notch.
              I hear that guy Mays was pretty good in the outfield, so maybe that can compensate for Mccovey's poor defense?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by willshad View Post
                I hear that guy Mays was pretty good in the outfield, so maybe that can compensate for Mccovey's poor defense?
                The difference between Mays and Edmonds defense is miniscule at best compared to the difference in defense the Cardinals corner outfielders over the Giants corner outfielders. Not saying the Giants outfield as whole isn't comparable as a whole but their is a great advantage for the Cardinals in fielding.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by willshad View Post
                  I hear that guy Mays was pretty good in the outfield, so maybe that can compensate for Mccovey's poor defense?
                  I think we know better than that. Of course, Mays was exceptional. And yes, great CFers can help their corner OFers some. But, that still leaves 90% of the plays for the corner OFer to make on his own. The fact is that McCovey was a poor outfielder- ask anyone who saw him, as I did. The Giants were stuck, with two great first basemen, neither of whom could play another position well.

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