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Your thoughts On Blocking Home Plate & Collisions....

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  • Your thoughts On Blocking Home Plate & Collisions....

    Bill James' thoughts on the official rule, the rule as enforced (or not) in actual practice, and how things should be.

    Some recent examples (not up the line, but catcher is on top or in front of home plate):
    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15201655

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?co...67437&c_id=mlb

    Most Famous Example of All:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fj2B9z4Dbw

    Debate on this subject...

    What are your thoughts on the topic?

    What should the rule be and how should it be enforced?

    How has it changed since you've been watching baseball, and has the change been for the better, or worse? What have people read about how things were 50-100 years ago in practice?

    Should collisions be part of baseball? What are some of the worst you remember, and who was to blame?

    Discuss....

  • #2
    Mike Scioscia back in the day...

    Many examples from the last few years...

    Comment


    • #3
      Nothing wrong with a clean, hard hit if each player is game. I think the hit on Posey was dirty and should have resulted in a suspension. Leaving your feet and launching at the head shouldn't be tolerated.

      If I was running a club, I don't think I'd have a problem with my players going for nothing but the plate to avoid injury.

      Comment


      • #4
        If the catcher doesn't want to get hit he should get out of the way. If the runner doesn't want to collide with him, then don't. But whoever is avoiding contact better be a stud. If an average to below average player is avoiding contact then I'd find someone else who will score the run or block the plate.
        Last edited by bluesky5; 05-06-2012, 01:30 PM. Reason: grammar
        "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
          If the catcher doesn't want to get hit he should get out of the way. If the runner doesn't want to collide with him, then don't. But whoever is avoiding contact better be a stud. If an average to below average player doesn't is avoiding contact then I'd find someone else who will score the run or block the plate.
          Frank Thomas rarely if ever slid into a base, prefering to get thrown out while staying on his feet.
          They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think that if a runner is not going straight to the base it is interference, but of course its not called. Also the fielder can not be in the baseline with the runner arriving without control of the ball.

            If the runner is going straight to home he can run into whatever is in his path, but he should not be able to use his hands to try to dislodge the ball. If the catcher has the ball he can stand his ground in the baseline.

            I remember watching a nationally televised game where Fisk tagged out two guys at the plate on the same play. Anyone know where I can find a clip of that? I think it was '84 or '85. I watched every game I could those yearsr for any team.
            Last edited by brett; 05-06-2012, 01:41 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              The Scioscia collision I remember was one I saw in person at Olympic Stadium in Montreal (I believe it was 1985). Skinny Expos pitcher Joe Hesketh decided for some reason to plow into Scioscia and broke his leg for his trouble. Scioscia said that if Hesketh had slid, he'd have been safe.

              Mike Epstein, a former college football fullback, broke and dislocated Clay Dalrymple's ankle in 1970...but Dalrymple held the ball and made the out.

              In a role reversal, former defensive back John Stearns stood his ground against enormous Dave Parker as "The Cobra" barreled in after tagging up on a possible sacrifice fly. Parker wound up with a broken cheekbone as the game ended on that play. I think that one was 1979.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
                Frank Thomas rarely if ever slid into a base, prefering to get thrown out while staying on his feet.
                That's insane and unacceptable. Thomas was a stud tho, at the plate.
                "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                  That's insane and unacceptable. Thomas was a stud tho, at the plate.
                  So you'd be willing to allow some players to avoid contact because they're great hitters, but others have to put their body on the line? Great message that sends.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Joe33 View Post
                    So you'd be willing to allow some players to avoid contact because they're great hitters, but others have to put their body on the line? Great message that sends.
                    Just like you don't want your star QB putting his head down and trying to take on defensive players for an extra yard, you don't want a stud hitter to end up out for 3 months because of one play at a base.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I played catcher growing up. I was better than the average bear.

                      It seems to me the catcher should not be in the baseline waiting for the runner unless he has the ball.

                      I would write more, but that about sums up my opinion based on past experience on both ends of plays at the plate.
                      Your Second Base Coach
                      Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey started 833 times and the Dodgers went 498-335, for a .598 winning percentage. That’s equal to a team going 97-65 over a season. On those occasions when at least one of them missed his start, the Dodgers were 306-267-1, which is a .534 clip. That works out to a team going 87-75. So having all four of them added 10 wins to the Dodgers per year.
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Joe33 View Post
                        So you'd be willing to allow some players to avoid contact because they're great hitters, but others have to put their body on the line? Great message that sends.
                        Not going to argue your position. It's harder to do the right thing for the team than to save yourself for future glory. I am a big proponent of going hard, doing what it takes to win every game. Every game counts, from opening day to the last game of the world series. But realistically I would like to have my top guys around for when it counts. If you don't take the hit you better be THE man.
                        "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Remember this play when Norm Charlton of the Reds went looking for Scioscia during the 1990 season.

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLTmd4Ni974

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That article (James, right?) states that the catcher HAS to be in possession of the ball. But the NOTE on rule 7.06(b) also states that the catcher can be fielding the ball as well. I don't think you have to yet be in possession of the ball if you're fielding the ball. You have to be making some sort of fielding "baseball move" in an attempt to get the ball, but "possession" is not necessarily quite there.

                            If the catcher is "about" to catch the ball, that is considered "fielding" the ball, yes?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                              That article (James, right?) states that the catcher HAS to be in possession of the ball. But the NOTE on rule 7.06(b) also states that the catcher can be fielding the ball as well. I don't think you have to yet be in possession of the ball if you're fielding the ball. You have to be making some sort of fielding "baseball move" in an attempt to get the ball, but "possession" is not necessarily quite there.

                              If the catcher is "about" to catch the ball, that is considered "fielding" the ball, yes?


                              I don't agree with the last part. Fielding is picking up a batted ball and the catcher can be in the baseline, as can the runner (assumed because only first base has an alternate mandatory basepath). I am not sure if a runner CAN go around a catcher picking up a batted ball in the basepath.

                              Comment

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