Mickey Vernon vs Juan Gonzalez

[Sockeye]

I'm going to run a series of polls with the winner advancing each time to face another opponent. Will leave each poll up for a week. I'll try to provide as much statistical information as possible. Hopefully we can get some lively insightful debates going and bring to light some overlooked players from yesteryear.
If you could pick between these two players to start your franchise with which would you pick? Please consider all relavent information. Their careers as a whole, peak performance, hitting, fielding, baserunning, positional value, league quality, etc.

Mickey Vernon

2409 games
9838 plate appearances
8731 at-bats
1196 runs
2495 hits
490 doubles
120 triples
172 home runs
1311 RBI
137 stolen bases
90 caught stealing
955 walks
869 strikeouts
.286 AVG
.359 OBP
.428 SLG
.787 OPS
116 OPS+
3741 total bases
1344 runs created
5.4 RC/G
99 AIR
.595 OW%
.736 Total Average
.257 Secondary Average
292.6 Win Shares
122.6 WSAB
41.0 WARP1
26.5 WARP3
30.1 rWAR
44.5 fWAR
21.4 sWAR

Juan Gonzalez

1689 games
7155 plate appearances
6556 at-bats
1061 runs
1936 hits
388 doubles
25 triples
434 home runs
1404 RBI
26 stolen bases
19 caught stealing
457 walks
1273 strikeouts
.295 AVG
.343 OBP
.561 SLG
.904 OPS
132 OPS+
3676 total bases
1222 runs created
6.7 RC/G
108 AIR
.623 OW%
.871 Total Average
.336 Secondary Average
233.1 Win Shares
113.1 WSAB
33.5 WARP1
36.8 WARP3
34.9 rWAR
38.6 fWAR
31.8 sWAR

Previous results

Willie Montanez vs Dave Kingman
Dave Kingman vs Dante Bichette
Dave Kingman vs Jose Guillen
Dave Kingman vs Dave Philley
Dave Kingman vs Shano Collins
Dave Kingman vs Eric Karros
Dave Kingman vs Charlie Grimm
Charlie Grimm vs Juan Gonzalez
Juan Gonzalez vs Bill Buckner
Juan Gonzalez vs Ruben Sierra
Juan Gonzalez vs Gee Walker
Juan Gonzalez vs Patsy Donovan
Juan Gonzalez vs Joe Carter
Juan Gonzalez vs Tommy Davis
Juan Gonzalez vs Charlie Jamieson
Juan Gonzalez vs Jeff Conine
Juan Gonzalez vs Hal Chase
Juan Gonzalez vs Lee May
Juan Gonzalez vs Joe Kuhel
Juan Gonzalez vs Willie Horton
Juan Gonzalez vs Chris Chambliss
Juan Gonzalez vs Hal McRae
Juan Gonzalez vs Andres Galarraga
Juan Gonzalez vs George Hendrick
Juan Gonzalez vs Garret Anderson
Juan Gonzalez vs George Burns
Juan Gonzalez vs Wally Moses
Juan Gonzalez vs Del Ennis
Juan Gonzalez vs Don Baylor
Juan Gonzalez vs Shawn Green
Juan Gonzalez vs Stuffy McInnis
Juan Gonzalez vs Wally Pipp
Juan Gonzalez vs Gary Matthews
Juan Gonzalez vs Bobby Bonilla

[KCGHOST]

I wouldn't have Juan Gonzalez if you gift wrapped him.

[Cowtipper]

I've always been partial to Vernon myself.

[Jackaroo Dave]

Pardon my ignorance, but why are Vernon's warps and wars all over the place while Juan's are fairly close together?

[1905 Giants]

I picked Vernon, although its hard to explain why.

Any idea who was better defensively?

[Nimrod]

Pardon my ignorance, but why are Vernon's warps and wars all over the place while Juan's are fairly close together?

Bill James asked that question many moons ago.His theory was that Vernon,who came up in 1939(Gehrig`s last year-and only a few games at that)was brought up in a play when your hurt era.Gehrig`s shadow loomed large.I remember reading an interview with Vernon made some 20 years ago in Baseball Digest,where he said that he felt he hit the ball harder and better during some of his .250-ish seasons than he did during his batting title seasons-it was just a matter of luck(good and bad),more of his drives found a safe landing spot when he won the batting titles.Playing in Washington and missing two years to the War didn`t help matters much.Mickey didn`t mention having to indure injuries,but then he was the strong,silent type.

[BigRon]

I'm almost sure that Vernon had some significant injury/illness during 1 or 2 of his curious "off" seasons. I'm away from home and don't have any of my research books, so I can't pinpoint anything. Maybe someone else can. Vernon had a reputation as a top flight defender at first base, to answer somebody's question.

[Dude Paskert]

I'm almost sure that Vernon had some significant injury/illness during 1 or 2 of his curious "off" seasons. I'm away from home and don't have any of my research books, so I can't pinpoint anything. Maybe someone else can. Vernon had a reputation as a top flight defender at first base, to answer somebody's question.

Didn't Bill James claim that Vernon got a nasty infection from getting a fishhook stuck in his behind that messed him up for a long time?
I think Vernon could have had a HOF career with better health and luck, and Juan's special nutrition package probably would have helped him a lot, too.

[pheasant]

Wow! This is much closer than I thought it would be. I have Gonzalez by a considerable margin. Gonzalez put up some huge numbers during his prime. Per 162 games played, he averaged 42 HRs and 135 RBIs, while going .295/.343/.561. It's too bad he hurt himself too much. Perhaps he was too musclebound.

[Jackaroo Dave]

Bill James asked that question many moons ago.His theory was that Vernon,who came up in 1939(Gehrig`s last year-and only a few games at that)was brought up in a play when your hurt era.Gehrig`s shadow loomed large.I remember reading an interview with Vernon made some 20 years ago in Baseball Digest,where he said that he felt he hit the ball harder and better during some of his .250-ish seasons than he did during his batting title seasons-it was just a matter of luck(good and bad),more of his drives found a safe landing spot when he won the batting titles.Playing in Washington and missing two years to the War didn`t help matters much.Mickey didn`t mention having to indure injuries,but then he was the strong,silent type.

Thanks, Nimrod. Interesting stuff. I knew the rough outline, but those details add a lot.

I actually wanted to know about about the inconsistencies among Vernon's career warp scores (warp1, warp3) and career war scores (fwar, swar, and rwar) which are all spread out, while Gonzales's are fairly close together. It's really more a question about war and warp than about Goodman.

Is it just a coincidence that these evaluators agree for Gonzales? Or is there something about Goodman's career that finds the points of disagreement among the evaluators?

[westsidegrounds]

I'm almost sure that Vernon had some significant injury/illness during 1 or 2 of his curious "off" seasons. I'm away from home and don't have any of my research books, so I can't pinpoint anything. .

Well, we know he didn't use steroids, so it wasn't that his muscles became overdeveloped in relation to his ligaments and tendons, thereby upping the risk of injury.

Gonzalez put up some huge numbers during his prime. It's too bad he hurt himself too much. Perhaps he was too musclebound.

Yeah. That's probably it.