Ranking Curtis Granderson amongst Centerfielders historically

[Blackout]

nobody will ever compare him to Cobb, Mantle, Dimaggio, Mays etc.


but where does he look like he'll land?


he's lead the league in triples twice, in RBI once, in Runs once and he is the ONLY player in MLB to post these stats in one year:


.300 average, 30 doubles, 20 triples, 20 homers, 20 SB


is he a top 20 CFer ever? top 15?

[BigRon]

and he is the ONLY player in MLB to post these stats in one year:


.300 average, 30 doubles, 20 triples, 20 homers, 20 SB

Granderson's good- let's give it a little while, though.

And, stat lines like these are sort of silly. Take a look at Mays in 56 or 57- he didn't reach 30 doubles, but he did all of the rest, with bigger numbers than Granderson. His year was better, but because he didn't have 30 doubles....

[Captain Cold Nose]

With better plate discipline, he could be Jimmy Wynn, whom Bill James ranked 10th. He very well can be a top 20 CF when all is said and done.

[KCGHOST]

Even adjusting for age he would have a tough time being a Top Thirty guy right now.

[GiambiJuice]

First he's got to pass guys like Lenny Dykstra and Andy Van Slyke before we can even think about him as a top 20 CFer.

[J W]

His most similar batters through age 30 include one HOFer, Larry Doby, who played in a more pitching friendly environment (OPS+ through age 30: Doby 142, Granderson 118). The list includes such luminaries as Richard Hidalgo and Preston Wilson. So yes, he's got a ways to go. The good news is, he doesn't appear anywhere near decline.

[ol' aches and pains]

I think coming to the Yankees and learning to hit lefthanders (with Kevin Long's help) is the best thing that could have happened to him. He still strikes out too much, but I'd sure take him over a goofball like Lenny Dykstra or an a****** like Andy Van Slyke.

[Blackout]

I think coming to the Yankees and learning to hit lefthanders (with Kevin Long's help) is the best thing that could have happened to him. He still strikes out too much, but I'd sure take him over a goofball like Lenny Dykstra or an a****** like Andy Van Slyke.

Andy Van Slyke, the face of the Bonds-lead Pittsburgh Pirates lol

[Freakshow]

Granderson sims.

Thru age-31 season, within 10 WAR, 9 OPS+, 1100 PA and 50 WAR Fielding Runs of Granderson, at least 45% G in CF, since 1896

Player              WAR/pos OPS+   PA Rfield From   To
Lenny Dykstra          38.4  122 4826     31 1985 1994
Andy Van Slyke         37.4  125 5395     31 1983 1992
Kirby Puckett          34.2  122 5369     15 1984 1991
Jim Edmonds            30.8  127 4202     35 1993 2001
Ray Lankford           30.6  127 4793      9 1990 1998
Curtis Granderson      30.1  118 4335     32 2004 2012
Andy Pafko             30.0  125 4940      7 1943 1952
Ellis Burks            28.7  121 4840     -2 1987 1996
Dwayne Murphy          28.6  116 4602     49 1978 1986
Mickey Rivers          27.8  109 4874      6 1970 1980
Chick Stahl            24.4  125 4474     31 1897 1904
Rondell White          24.1  111 4480     62 1993 2003
Tommie Agee            23.6  109 4324     64 1962 1973
Bobby Thomson          23.2  115 4893     -1 1946 1955
Amos Strunk            22.9  115 4890     19 1908 1920
Dave Henderson         22.3  110 4335     44 1981 1990
Fielder Jones          20.5  113 4652     19 1896 1903

[Honus Wagner Rules]

So Granderson is the new Mickey Rivers?! Cool!

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[dgarza]

Granderson didn't get hot until age 26. A tad bit late, but not an impossible hurdle to leap.
His WAR through age 25 is 4.9. Hack Wilson had less (1.7), but all other HOFer CFers did more early on.

Granderson can be a Top 30 CF easily. That's like "Hall of Very Good" territory. Wally Berger, Vada Pinson...

But really he's good enough to become a Top 20 CFer when all is said and done, as long as he stays playing solid and ages decently. Of the top of my head, that's like Dale Murphy territory.

Top 15? To me, you gotta be an Andre Dawson type player to be Top 15. I think he got too late a start for that. Not impossible, but he'll need to play strong into his early 40s. Not really likely, but who knows...

[Blackout]

Grandy is having a great season so far

[9RoyHobbsRF]

looks like the pennant is attached to his bat

So Granderson is the new Mickey Rivers?! Cool!

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[leewileyfan]

With better plate discipline, he could be Jimmy Wynn, whom Bill James ranked 10th. He very well can be a top 20 CF when all is said and done.

Here's my dilemma with considering an active player among the greats in a critical position like CF: I just went back to 1901 and went forward only through 1942, after which season most active stars had departed for years of military service in WW II. Here are 47 names of players who either started off in CF or who played a significant number of games in CF, many moving to other positions - some even specializing in playing well wherever they were called upon to play.

My primary interest in the history of the game [to 1901, not beyond] is defense. Many of these might be scrubbed for coming up short on defense. Many excelled defensively. Most had long and rewarding careers.

Cy Seymour
Clyde Milan Tris Speaker
Tommy Leach
Zack Wheat
Dode Paskert
Ty Cobb
Sherry Magee
Nemo Liebold
Max Carey
Edd Roush
Happy Felsch
Cy Williams
Hi Myers
Sam Rice
Baby Doll Jacobson
Ray Powell
Jigger Statz
Johnny Mostil
Earl Combs
Ira Flagstead
Taylor Douthit
Freddy Leach
Lloyd Waner
Jimmy Welsh
Fred Schulte
Ethan Allen
Hack Wilson
Earl Averill
Sam West
Mule Haas
Wally Berger
Kiddo Davis
Freddie Lindstrom
Cick Hafey
Doc Cramer
Terry Moore
Ben Chapman
Vince DiMaggio
Joe DiMaggio
Mike Kreevich
Harry Craft
Sam Chapman
Barney McCosky
Walt Judnich
Dom DiMaggio
Stan Spence

That's just up into 1942. Then I am reminded by the quote above from Captain Cold Nose [Honest, Capt., I'm not intentionally picking a scrap with you] ... that IF Granderson really hunkers down, he MIGHT be like #10 [All-Time CF?????] Jimmy Wynn.

I don't know whether to cry or upchuck. I haven't even cracked the 1950's, with Willie Mays and Richie Ashburn ... and a long way from the current crop of CF, which, considering all-time, has to consider Andruw Jones and Jim Edmonds and Torii Hunter. IMVHO, there may well be 10 CF better than Mr. Wynn, if we limit the universe to players who broke in after 1980.

Then too, we have context. I admit that my primary focus is defense; and I readily admit that my top 10 or twenty, defensively, would be moved around quite a bit if ALL-AROUND were the only allowed standard. Lots of very able CF [if not defensive whizzes] performed well enough in the field while excelling with the bat.

Granderson is a good, solid CF, who to date probably should have earned one GG award in an honest and studied evaluation. Were the two big HR seasons for real; or were they an anomaly? It's a bit early to project; but I'd say All-Star [YES]; top 20, all-time [not nearly, so far].

[BigRon]

With reference to the commnets about Wynn: I think James has him a bit overplaced at #10 alltime (remember, this is before Edmonds and some others were seriously in play). But, I feel he is far better than lee seems to think. Wynn was an extremely talented guy- he could run, he had outstanding power for a small guy, he could throw when he first came up. Inbjuries were always a problem for him- he missed lots of time early in his career and frequently played hurt. His throwing fell off due to several injuries, I believe. But, his surface stats are a bit misleading. He played in a low offense era, and the Astrodome didn't help. Several have pointed out in other threads that Wynn's home average was actually higher than on the road- that's true, but not by a wide margin. And, he definitely lost homers due to the Astrodome- that place was a nightmare for power hitters.

Wynn wasn't an outstanding defender in CF, but I think some of this may have been due to his injuries. But, he had lots of power, he had a great eye and took lots of walks, so he got on base at a very good rate despite a pedestrian BA. He was an outstanding baserunner.

All things considered, I place Wynn in the high teens as a centerfielder, no worse than 20th for sure.