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  • Ted Williams vs Carl Yastrzemski

    Who was better, Ted Williams or Carl Yastrzemski? Yes i know it seems weird that a Yankees fan would be asking this question but i'm a huge fan of Teddy Ballgame, my grandfather is a Red Sox fan & he thinks Yaz was better so what are your thoughts?

  • #2
    Originally posted by NYYankeesFan92 View Post
    Who was better, Ted Williams or Carl Yastrzemski? Yes i know it seems weird that a Yankees fan would be asking this question but i'm a huge fan of Teddy Ballgame, my grandfather is a Red Sox fan & he thinks Yaz was better so what are your thoughts?

    Ted Williams and I don't think it is even close.

    Yaz did win the triple crown, something Williams did twice. Both of Williams TC years were probably statistically more impressive atleast offensively. In 1941 he hit over .400, had an OPS close to 1.300.

    Yaz was the better fielder but at the plate Williams is in the top 5 all time(some would say top two). Yaz had 4-5 great seasons and a bunch of really good ones, Williams had about 15 seasons that were great or close to being great, and thats with missing three of his peak years to the WWII.

    I think to be fair to most players when you compare then to Williams it should be...Ted Williams age 34-41 or Frank Robinson or Yaz or Al Kaline :P
    Last edited by Jroll; 06-16-2012, 07:25 PM.

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    • #3
      Ted is top-10 all time at worst. Yaz is top 40 at best.
      My top 10 players:

      1. Babe Ruth
      2. Barry Bonds
      3. Ty Cobb
      4. Ted Williams
      5. Willie Mays
      6. Alex Rodriguez
      7. Hank Aaron
      8. Honus Wagner
      9. Lou Gehrig
      10. Mickey Mantle

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      • #4
        Williams is an inner circle hall of fame type of guy, Yaz was more of a compiler with a good peak. He's closer to guys like Dave Parker and Luis Gonzalez than he is to Ted Wiliams.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by willshad View Post
          Williams is an inner circle hall of fame type of guy, Yaz was more of a compiler with a good peak. He's closer to guys like Dave Parker and Luis Gonzalez than he is to Ted Wiliams.
          Come on now, Yaz is far from a compiler. He's also a far cry from Gonzalez. Yaz was a major all-star for some time That said Williams is much more elite. Yaz is not is his class.
          This week's Giant

          #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
            Come on now, Yaz is far from a compiler. He's also a far cry from Gonzalez. Yaz was a major all-star for some time That said Williams is much more elite. Yaz is not is his class.
            He managed to get 3419 hits despite a .285 batting average, and playing half his games in Fenway. Ended up with 1844 RBI, but only 5 100 RBI seasons in 23 years, again despite being in Fenway in pretty good lineups.

            Career road OPS: .779

            This is a compiler, with a handful of really good years.

            Take away his 2 or 3 best seasons from his career totals. You end up with Harold Baines..except Baines didnt have the huge home/road split.
            Last edited by willshad; 06-16-2012, 11:40 PM.

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            • #7
              --Well that .285 average (and all Yaz other road stats) look alot more impressive put into context. Most of Yaz career played out in historically low offensive environments. When you can lead the league in BA, as Yaz did in 1968, then a career .285 looks pretty impressive. Of course Yaz and Williams is a ridiculous comparison, but you can count on one hand the number of hitters who can be reasonably compared to Williams.

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              • #8
                It's obviously Williams.

                .344/.482/.634/190 OPS+ for Williams

                .285/.379/.462/130 OPS+ for Yaz

                Even if comparing raw statistics across eras isn't 100% reliable, you can see from a mile away that Williams was the much better hitter. He almost had twice Yaz's WAR in less ABs! Yaz's SLG (albeit in a low offensive league for a lot of his career) was lower than Williams' OBP.

                Like leecemark said, there aren't really many hitters comparable to Williams. Ruth, Bonds, Gehrig and maybe Hornsby and Mantle if you're comparing hitters.

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                • #9
                  Again, Williams was obviously better, but it can not be overstated how great a player Yaz was at his peak. I don't believe a single offensive player has ever carried his team on his back to the extent that Yastrzemski did for the Red Sox in 1967.

                  1968 was the worst year for hitters during the modern era. Yaz famously won a batting title hitting only .301. His .922 OPS In 1968, when adjusted for context, is equivalent to Hank Greenberg's 1.103 OPS in 1940 and slightly better than Greenberg's 1.122 OPS in 1938, when he hit .315/.438/.683 and finished with 58 homers.

                  He is one of only 19 position players with multiple 10-WAR seasons ('67 and '68) and one of only 13 players with at least three 9-WAR seasons.

                  He may have done some compiling during the latter half of his career, but he was already a deserving HOFer at the end of 1970, when he turned 30 and played his tenth big league season.
                  Last edited by GiambiJuice; 06-17-2012, 09:14 AM.
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                    I don't believe a single offensive player has ever carried his team on his back to the extent that Yastrzemski did for the Red Sox in 1967.
                    Considering they made the post-season, this might be true. Yaz carried 12.0 of the 1967 team's 36.8 WAR, which is 32.6%.

                    There have been other players who have carried their team, but their teams didn't make the post-season.
                    Ted Williams for one. His 10.1 WAR in 1941 was 33.1 % of the Red Sox's 30.5 WAR.
                    Steve Carlton's 12.1 WAR was a whopping 80.1% of the 1972 Phillie's 15.1 WAR.
                    Last edited by dgarza; 06-17-2012, 09:53 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                      Again, Williams was obviously better, but it can not be overstated how great a player Yaz was at his peak. I don't believe a single offensive player has ever carried his team on his back to the extent that Yastrzemski did for the Red Sox in 1967.

                      1968 was the worst year for hitters during the modern era. Yaz famously won a batting title hitting only .301. His .922 OPS In 1968, when adjusted for context, is equivalent to Hank Greenberg's 1.103 OPS in 1940 and slightly better than Greenberg's 1.122 OPS in 1938, when he hit .315/.438/.683 and finished with 58 homers.

                      He is one of only 19 position players with multiple 10-WAR seasons ('67 and '68) and one of only 13 players with at least three 9-WAR seasons.

                      He may have done some compiling during the latter half of his career, but he was already a deserving HOFer at the end of 1970, when he turned 30 and played his tenth big league season.
                      GiambiJuice and leecemark have it right. Williams is one of the 2 greatest hitters in history, and among the top 5-6-7 position players. But, Yastrzemski was an outstanding player-he couldn't hit with Williams, but for the first half of his career he as an excellent offensive performer. Yastrzemski was a better fielder than Williams, and a better baserunner. Balancing his long-term peak years and his career output, Yastrzemski fits comfortably among the top 25 position players. And, for a couple of seasons, his total value was very close to Wiliams' best- it's just that Williams had quite a few more such seasons.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by willshad View Post
                        He managed to get 3419 hits despite a .285 batting average, and playing half his games in Fenway. Ended up with 1844 RBI, but only 5 100 RBI seasons in 23 years, again despite being in Fenway in pretty good lineups.

                        Career road OPS: .779

                        This is a compiler, with a handful of really good years.

                        Take away his 2 or 3 best seasons from his career totals. You end up with Harold Baines..except Baines didnt have the huge home/road split.
                        Yaz also played in a tough era. His numbers would look much better if he had played at a different time. He lasted a long time as a good but not great player, but if you translate his 1963 to 1970 numbers into a different era they would be pretty awesome. They are impressive enough as it is: Three batting titles, five on base titles, three slugging titles, 4 ops titles, 4 ops+ titles, a homerun title. He was a dominant player in that period, and if it had been in the 80's, let alone the 90's, he would be seen as more of a great.

                        I actually think Yaz is quite underrated. He might have been the best player in the AL from 1963-1970. I have not looked thoroughly into it, but off-hand I can't think of anyone else.

                        Yaz is not in Williams' class, but that is not much of a criticism.
                        Last edited by dl4060; 06-17-2012, 07:57 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Reggie Jackson, who is on the Mt Rushmore of batter strikeout chumps, out hit Carl Yastrzemski, 3 time batting champ (and missed a fourth by .0002), in road games .268 to .264

                          here are a few Yaz years broken down by home and road performance

                          1962 OVERALL .296 19 HR .469 SA
                          1962 HOME .342 11 HR .563 SA
                          1962 ROAD .252 8 HR .379 SA

                          1965 OVERALL .312 20 HR .536 SA
                          1965 HOME .331 16 HR .639 SA
                          1965 ROAD .289 4 HR .417 SA

                          1977 OVERALL .296 28 HR .505 SA
                          1977 HOME .351 14 HR .557 SA
                          1977 ROAD .239 14 HR .453 SA

                          you be the judge of how good Yaz was especially when you take him out of Fenway
                          Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 06-17-2012, 09:35 PM.
                          1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                          2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                          3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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                          • #14
                            Obviously Yaz was a great, great ballplayer. I don't think that anyone is denying that. We're all basically saying that Williams/Yaz is a fairly ridiculous comparison to make.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dl4060 View Post
                              Yaz also played in a tough era. His numbers would look much better if he had played at a different time. He lasted a long time as a good but not great player, but if you translate his 1963 to 1970 numbers into a different era they would be pretty awesome. They are impressive enough as it is: Three batting titles, five on base titles, three slugging titles, 4 ops titles, 4 ops+ titles, a homerun title. He was a dominant player in that period, and if it had been in the 80's, let alone the 90's.

                              I actually think Yaz is quite underrated. He might have been the best player in the AL from 1963-1970. I have not looked thoroughly into it, but off-hand I can't think of anyone else.

                              Yaz is not in Williams class, but that is not much of a criticism.
                              He did put up a nice war from 1963-1970. I didn't add it up but it's gotta be close to a 60 war. He had 3 seasons over 9.0.
                              "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                              "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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