All-Time Defensive Team

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Sorry to continue the saturation of threads in this subforum. If you created a team solely on defense, what would it be? Disregard anything else; starters should be chosen out of sheer defense. Give me 8 position spots, one pitcher, and five bench players coordinated as if you were creating a regular team (so an extra catcher, some outfielders, infielders, etc). The players after the slash on my team indicate who the starters would be if I went solely on TZR.

C- Ivan Rodriguez/Ivan Rodriguez (167)
1B- Keith Hernandez/Keith Hernandez (120)
2B- Bill Mazeroski/Bill Mazeroski (148)
3B- Brooks Robinson/Brooks Robinson (293)
SS- Ozzie Smith/Ozzie Smith (239)
LF- Carl Yastrzemski/Barry Bonds (179)
CF- Willie Mays(?)/Andruw Jones (220)
RF- Roberto Clemente/Roberto Clemente (204)
P- Greg Maddux(?)

Bench
C-Johnny Bench? Bob Boone? Yadier Molina?
SS/3B- Omar Vizquel
2B- Nellie Fox
OF- Al Kaline? Ichiro? Dwight Evans? Jim Piersall? Ken Griffey?
OF- Barry Bonds? Andruw Jones? Tris Speaker?

A lot of outfielders to choose from. Feel free to comment

[redban]

Devon White at CF.

Scott Rolen and Robin Ventura at 3B.

[redban]

A problem with these threads is that defense is difficult to gauge. Not too many reliable stats for fielding exist, and many agree you have to watch a player all-season to rate his defense. And it's simply impossible to watch everyone.

Like looking at your list, I see only star players - Hall of Famers - guys who could field and hit.

Were there no role-players who were elite defenders? How come the best fielders all happen to be great all-around players?

Take someone like Rey Ordonez, for instance. As a Met fan, I remember hearing that he was as good of a fielder as Vizquel; but few knew since he wasn't a star (he struggled to bat .250).

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

A problem with these threads is that defense is difficult to gauge. Not too many reliable stats for fielding exist, and many agree you have to watch a player all-season to rate his defense. And it's simply impossible to watch everyone.

Like looking at your list, I see only star players - Hall of Famers - guys who could field and hit.

Were there no role-players who were elite defenders? How come the best fielders all happen to be great all-around players?

Take someone like Rey Ordonez, for instance. As a Met fan, I remember hearing that he was as good of a fielder as Vizquel; but few knew since he wasn't a star (he struggled to bat .250).

This is why I created the thread. I simply do not know/think of all the best defenders

[fenrir]

I've seen people argue that Griffey Jr was vastly overrated defensively.

[White Knight]

I've seen people argue that Griffey Jr was vastly overrated defensively.

He was. Good but not elite.

[Second Base Coach]

All Defense, all the time, using guys I saw play in person:

C-Steve Yeager, Tony Pena, Jim Sundberg
1B-Keith Hernandez, Mark Teixeira
2B-Manny Trillo, Roberto Alomar
3B-Graig Nettles, Scott Rolen
SS-Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel
OF-Garry Maddox, Jim Edmonds, Torri Hunter, Dwight Evans, Andruw Jones, Ichiro Suzuki
P- Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Jim Kaat, Kenny Rogers, Mark Langston

Of those players above, I would think these fellows would be among the all-time greats:

Hernandez, Trillo, Nettles, Smith, Maddox, Jones, Maddux, Mussina, and Kaat.

I did not see Bench in his prime, so I cannot really list him here. Same with Brooks Robinson

Tony Pena and Ozzie Smith seemed to have the most fun when playing defense. I can say the same thing about Brooks, but only on film.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

for an outfielder you need range, skill, intelligence (positioning etc) and a strong arm

lots of these fleet outfielders like devon white and garry maddox could cover the world but their arms were mediocre at best

i would not think of anyone but clemente in right field

[White Knight]

All Defense, all the time, using guys I saw play in person:

C-Steve Yeager, Tony Pena, Jim Sundberg
1B-Keith Hernandez, Mark Teixeira
2B-Manny Trillo, Roberto Alomar
3B-Graig Nettles, Scott Rolen
SS-Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel
OF-Garry Maddox, Jim Edmonds, Torri Hunter, Dwight Evans, Andruw Jones, Ichiro Suzuki
P- Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Jim Kaat, Kenny Rogers, Mark Langston

Of those players above, I would think these fellows would be among the all-time greats:

Hernandez, Trillo, Nettles, Smith, Maddox, Jones, Maddux, Mussina, and Kaat.

I did not see Bench in his prime, so I cannot really list him here. Same with Brooks Robinson

Tony Pena and Ozzie Smith seemed to have the most fun when playing defense. I can say the same thing about Brooks, but only on film.

Teixeira over some guys you also saw, like Pujols, Mattingly, and Will Clark?

[hwmongoose]

Someone referenced players we actually saw in person. One of the ones I saw in person was Bobby Grich in the first half of the 1970s. That was the best 2B defensive play I ever saw.

[Second Base Coach]

Teixeira over some guys you also saw, like Pujols, Mattingly, and Will Clark?

Sure. It's just an opinion.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Anyone see Concepcion in person?

[leecemark]

--Some good points made above. Some great defensive players couldn't hit enough to hold down a job long term -perhaps even some of the best ever defensive players. Even when they do they often lose Gold Gloves to guys not as good on defense, but with better bats - and resulting greater fame.
--We would all like to think we can better judge guys we've actually seen play and to a certain extent that is true. The problem with judging by our own eyes is your memory grabs onto the flashy plays and the flubbed routine plays, but its much harder to know who is turning the plays other guys wouldn't have made into routine plays - or not reaching balls others would have gotten to.
--That said, here is my list of guys I've seen who also have some numbers to back up my observations;
C - Johnny Bench
1B - Keith Hernandez
2B - Bobby Grich
3B - Graig Nettles
SS - Ozzie Smith
OF - Mike Cameron
OF - Garry Pettis
OF - Andrew Jones
--The best CF are always better than the best corner OF, but if you want a true LF and RF move Cameron and Pettis to the bench and add LF Barry Bonds and RF Ichiro Suzuki. IF backups will be Bredan Ryan and Adam Everett. Backup catcher is Bob Boone

[Gee Walker]

A few more marginal players that stayed in the game because of their defensive reputations. These guys couldn't hit much, but impressed me with their defense.

C: Jim Sundberg
1B: Vic Power, Mike Squires
2B: Glenn Hubbard
SS: Dal Maxvill
3B: Brandon Inge
OF: Devon White, Gary Pettis - both centerfielders who had all the tools. Devon White had a good arm - check out the triple play that the umpires botched in game 3 of the 1992 World Series.
RF: Jesse Barfield. He could actually hit, and had the best arm of any player that I've seen in person. I only saw Clemente on TV, and rarely at that since I live near an American League city.

[Bothrops Atrox]

C - Ivan Rodriguez (Bench)
1B - Keith Hernandez (Pujols)
2B - Bill Mazerowski (Randolph)
3B - Brooks Robinson (Rolen)
SS - Ozzie Smith (Belanger)
OF - Andruw Jones (Blair)
OF- Willie Mays (Barfield)
OF -Roberto Clemente (D. White)