Greatest players to never win an MVP award and a World Series ring?

[redban]

Who are the greatest players to never win an MVP award and a World Series ring?

The first one that comes to my mind is Mike Piazza.

The greatest offensive catcher in MLB history never won an MVP, finishing 2nd place twice. (Although in 1996, he lost to Ken Caminiti, who admitted to using PEDS)

He made the Fall-Classic in 2000, but his team got crushed by the Yankee dynasty in just 5 games.

A great career, but not perfect.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

both Jim Thome and Ron Santo quaiify I think and both had almost double the career WAR of Piazza

[9RoyHobbsRF]

Tony Gwynn and Rafael Palmeiro

ditto

[9RoyHobbsRF]

Edgar Martinez and Cartlon FIsk

ditto

[Bothrops Atrox]

both Jim Thome and Ron Santo quaiify I think and both had almost double the career WAR of Piazza

I doubt it. Piazza is around 55 and Thome and Santo are probably not even at 70.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

Dwight Evans and Craig Biggio

ditto

[9RoyHobbsRF]

oops sorry looked at WAA not WAR for Piazza

all still higher than Piazza

most did not play in media centers of la and ny with the accompanying hype




QUOTE=Matthew C.;2028357]I doubt it. Piazza is around 55 and Thome and Santo are probably not even at 70.[/QUOTE]

[Gee Walker]

Arky Vaughan - WAR of 70.5. The modern MVP award existed throughout his career.

Among recent pitchers - those after the Cy Young Award began - Phil Niekro has a WAR of 91.7 (!) and no MVP awards. Not even a Cy Young award.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

^ Phil Niekro received MVP votes in 3 of his 24 years in the ML and finished 9th, 17th and 20th

Juan Marichal received MVP votes 7 times in an 8 year period and finished 5th, 6th 9th, 11th, 15th 22nd and 23rd

Niekro threw one shutout for every 16 games started
Marichal threw one shutout for every 9 games started

Marichal's era was half a run better than Niekfro's

[redban]

both Jim Thome and Ron Santo quaiify I think and both had almost double the career WAR of Piazza

WAR isn't a reliable stat for catchers. All catchers are underrated by WAR.

[ol' aches and pains]

Luke Appling-career WAR of 69.9, for those who care. Never won an MVP, and not only did he never win a World Series ring, he never played in a post-season game in a 20-year, 2422 game career.

[Bothrops Atrox]

^ Phil Niekro received MVP votes in 3 of his 24 years in the ML and finished 9th, 17th and 20th

Juan Marichal received MVP votes 7 times in an 8 year period and finished 5th, 6th 9th, 11th, 15th 22nd and 23rd

Niekro threw one shutout for every 16 games started
Marichal threw one shutout for every 9 games started

Marichal's era was half a run better than Niekfro's

Niekro has a much better WAR mainly because he pitched 2,000 more innings. WAR does not suggest that Niekro was better at getting batters out than Marichal.

[brett]

^ Phil Niekro received MVP votes in 3 of his 24 years in the ML and finished 9th, 17th and 20th

Juan Marichal received MVP votes 7 times in an 8 year period and finished 5th, 6th 9th, 11th, 15th 22nd and 23rd

Niekro threw one shutout for every 16 games started
Marichal threw one shutout for every 9 games started

Marichal's era was half a run better than Niekfro's

League ERA for Marichal's career was 3.55. League ERA for Niekro's was 3.85.

[brett]

Niekro has a much better WAR mainly because he pitched 2,000 more innings. WAR does not suggest that Niekro was better at getting batters out than Marichal.

Niekro had a 123 ERA+ (same as Marichal's) for over 4000 innings from '67-'81 and 125 for longer stretches than Marichal's career.

[redban]

Another one is Carlos Delgado.

He was runner-up for MVP in 2003, losing to Alex Rodriguez who was on PEDS.

And he never sniffed the post-season until his 14th season in 2006, with NYM (He put up monster stats that post-season, but Mets lost the NLCS to STL).