Are the 1992-1993 Blue Jays an all-time great team?

[redban]

The 1992 and 1993 Blue Jays went back-to-back, with the same core players in both years - Olerud, Alomar, Carter, White, Guzman etc.

Would you categorize them as an all-time great team? In other words, are they one of the greatest teams in MLB history?

They won 96 games in 1992 and 95 games in 1993. Both years, however, their Pythagorean W/L record was 91-71. In the playoffs, they didn't sweep anyone in either year.

Compare them to the 1986 Mets. That group from 85-88' won just 1 championship, but they dominated in that one year in which they won. Would you put the 86' Mets below the 1992-1993 Jays because of this?

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Good question, I would say those Mets teams were better but I suppose you would have to give those BlueJays the nod as a better all-time team.

I always felt the Mets played in a pretty watered down Eastern Division in 86. But 108 win is still impressive.

[Bothrops Atrox]

I don't know about the two teams being with the best ever when they played, but look at the players who passed through town those two seasons. Granted, all of their peaks did not converge and some did not get extended playing time, but oh my gosh the talent in one city over a 2 year period...

John Oledrud
Roberto Alomar
Joe Carter
Dave Winfield
Rickey Henderson
Paul Molitor
Shawn Green
Carlos Delgado
Jeff Kent
Jack Morris
Jimmy Key
Dave Stieb
David Wells
David Cone
Al Leiter
Dave Stewart

These are just big stars. Doesn't even include guys like Pat Hentgen, Juan Guzman, Devon White, Tony Fernandez, Pat Borders and others who were very good players in their own right.



Pretty mindblowing.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

The 1991 Blue Jays also reached the ALCS losing 4-1 to the eventual World Series champion Twins. The 1985 Blue Jays won 99 games and their Pythagorean Expected record is also 99 wins.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

The 1991 Blue Jays also reached the ALCS losing 4-1 to the eventual World Series champion Twins. The 1985 Blue Jays won 99 games and their Pythagorean Expected record is also 99 wins.

Yeah I forgot about the BlueJays winning the division in 91. That is a pretty good run. Imagine if they beat the Twins in 91, they woulda had a good chance at a threepeat.

[redban]

The 1991 Blue Jays also reached the ALCS losing 4-1 to the eventual World Series champion Twins. The 1985 Blue Jays won 99 games and their Pythagorean Expected record is also 99 wins.

But they still didn't win it all. Having nice years where you fall short doesn't satisfy a team's fanbase.

[Los Bravos]

I'm not sure about how I would answer the question of whether they're an all time great team but they're definitely underrated in the larger scheme of things.

[leecemark]

--I guess the answer to this question depends on how many teams you think qualify as "all time great". For me any team that manages back to back championships at least earns a nomination to the discussion. If you are talking about say the top 10 teams ever then the Jays are going to come up short.

[ian2813]

The American League in the early 90's was pretty well-balanced, and the Blue Jays just happened to be the best of the bunch. They didn't really dominate in any category, though, so it'd be hard to call them an all-time great team.

[abolishthedh]

To answer the question as it is posed, and upon reviewing prior responses in this thread, I would say the Jays were an alltime great team.

The reason for that Jays bunch remaining underrated is interesting to consider. IMO, the Jays don't have a rabid fan base which touts the Jays day in and day out, such as the better franchises further South have.

[dgarza]

The 1991 Blue Jays also reached the ALCS losing 4-1 to the eventual World Series champion Twins. The 1985 Blue Jays won 99 games and their Pythagorean Expected record is also 99 wins.

Never really thought of them this way, but, yeah, they were pretty good.

Even in the log run, they were in 1st place 5x in 9 straight seasons, and 4x in 5 straight seasons.

                                                                            
Rk   Year              Tm      Lg   G  W  L Ties W-L%   Finish      Playoffs
20   1993 TorontoBlueJays AL East 162 95 67    0 .586 1st of 7    WonWS(4-2)
21   1992 TorontoBlueJays AL East 162 96 66    0 .593 1st of 7    WonWS(4-2)
22   1991 TorontoBlueJays AL East 162 91 71    0 .562 1st of 7 LostALCS(4-1)
23   1990 TorontoBlueJays AL East 162 86 76    0 .531               2nd of 7
24   1989 TorontoBlueJays AL East 162 89 73    0 .549 1st of 7 LostALCS(4-1)
25   1988 TorontoBlueJays AL East 162 87 75    0 .537               3rd of 7
26   1987 TorontoBlueJays AL East 162 96 66    0 .593               2nd of 7
27   1986 TorontoBlueJays AL East 163 86 76    1 .531               4th of 7
28   1985 TorontoBlueJays AL East 161 99 62    0 .615 1st of 7 LostALCS(4-3)

[Honus Wagner Rules]

You could throw in 1983 and 1984 as well. The Blue Jays finished 89-73 both seasons.

[Bothrops Atrox]

The Blue Jays, with one of the greatest collections of pure talent ever assembled (granted, not all in their primes or playing a lot at the same time) were a force for 5-6 years and won two championships during arguably the highest LQ baseball has ever seen (the most integration and latin players + the furthest away from expansion). I'd have to say they are in the running, yes.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Those Blue Jays succeeded despite quite a bit of turnover from when they first started having success as a franchise in the mid-80's. Only Jimmy Key and Tom Henke figured prominently on both the 1992 champs and the 1987 team that went down to the wire in an exciting division race in 1987. Dave Stieb was still around, albeit past his prime, and the mystical Rance Mulliniks still held a roster spot.

[Los Bravos]

Their first 15-17 years or so are equal with the Royals as a model of how to build an expansion franchise into something lasting.