I was reading "The Machine" recently about the '75 Reds - haven't finished it yet, but don't worry, i know the ending :clowning: - and I came across the interesting tidbit that the Reds sought to trade Tony Perez all through the winter, seekigna third baseman. Among the names mentioned most were Butch HObson, George Brett, and Graig Nettles.
This struck me as interesting for several reasons.
1. perez had played third int he past; obviously they felt he was too slow by now for the position, but considering who they wound up with going into the spring,a nd how much the idea of Rose at 3rd was dismissed, I wonder if they considered moving him back; it doesn't sound like it.
2. The trade of Perez was partly blamed by some for the breakup of the Machine, going down to 88 wins in 77, though losing Gullett also played a part, I'm sure. And the book shows he did seem to be really integral to that clubhouse.
3. It's not said why the trades didn't work out, but my hunch is the Reds wanted more than Hobson since he was younger & the Sox wouldn't budge, the Royals wanted more from the Reds for the young and improving Brett and the Reds wouldn't budge, and the Yankees wanted a king's ransom for the great defneisive Nettles. Some of that could be hindsight, though (although the book's tone makes it sound like the Yankee part is accurate - he was considered a great defneisive player and not yet known for his really low career batting average)
So, my questions are as follows.
1. Would another team have played Perez back at 3rd if the Reds wouldn't? I'm thinking they all have good fist basemen, not sure what order I'd put them in at this point but I can especially see the Red Sox putting him at 3rd, this was a team I don't think of as paying as much attention to defensse as they did to their bats.
2.How does this impact the Reds? I had no idea they started out 18-19, but then again, that was a very weak division? Could the Reds still win? I think they could, but they likely lose the World Series...probably tot he Red Sox!
3. Do the Reds win another in 1976, either because they win in '75 or, more likely, they win in 1972, catpuring the World Series,b ut the Mets beat the Dodgers in '73 as the Reds slip to about 95 wins in their post-Series excitement. Not winning the division 2 years in a row would be a good reason for them to pull the trigger on a Perez deal. (And that lets the Reds win a Series - I feel bad for them not winning a couple witht hat talent; but then I am from that part of the country.)
4. If Perez goes tot he Red Sox, and they win the '95 World Series, who is Series MVP? Looking at his numbers, in addition to the Game 6 homer, which I can't deprive baseball of for this what-if, I'd say Fisk.
5. Doe sthis make Perez more likely to make the Hall of Fame, or less? I'd say his chances are less as a Yankee, a toss-up as a Royal (depends on if he is part of a dynasty int he late '70s that wins several pennants), and more likely witht he Red Sox. Boston would increase his numbers so he could well hit .300 in '75, '77, and '78, and could have 25 homers in '75-'77, or at least a couple of those years. In addition, if trading for him puts the Red Sox over the top for the first time in generations, wow!
Interesting thought - Sparky wasn't high on George Foster because he was "too quiet" - though Foster put up good numbers. What if they package Foster with perez, move Rose to first, and get not only Hobson but Jim Rice for LF. Rice wins a World Series with the Reds in '76 but maybe not '75, is recognized as a really good player but not quite Hall-worthy most likely (though he might be if he doesn't have that wrist injury in '80 that sapped some of his power).
Don't know much about the other teams but the Boston idea for Perez is interesting.
This struck me as interesting for several reasons.
1. perez had played third int he past; obviously they felt he was too slow by now for the position, but considering who they wound up with going into the spring,a nd how much the idea of Rose at 3rd was dismissed, I wonder if they considered moving him back; it doesn't sound like it.
2. The trade of Perez was partly blamed by some for the breakup of the Machine, going down to 88 wins in 77, though losing Gullett also played a part, I'm sure. And the book shows he did seem to be really integral to that clubhouse.
3. It's not said why the trades didn't work out, but my hunch is the Reds wanted more than Hobson since he was younger & the Sox wouldn't budge, the Royals wanted more from the Reds for the young and improving Brett and the Reds wouldn't budge, and the Yankees wanted a king's ransom for the great defneisive Nettles. Some of that could be hindsight, though (although the book's tone makes it sound like the Yankee part is accurate - he was considered a great defneisive player and not yet known for his really low career batting average)
So, my questions are as follows.
1. Would another team have played Perez back at 3rd if the Reds wouldn't? I'm thinking they all have good fist basemen, not sure what order I'd put them in at this point but I can especially see the Red Sox putting him at 3rd, this was a team I don't think of as paying as much attention to defensse as they did to their bats.
2.How does this impact the Reds? I had no idea they started out 18-19, but then again, that was a very weak division? Could the Reds still win? I think they could, but they likely lose the World Series...probably tot he Red Sox!
3. Do the Reds win another in 1976, either because they win in '75 or, more likely, they win in 1972, catpuring the World Series,b ut the Mets beat the Dodgers in '73 as the Reds slip to about 95 wins in their post-Series excitement. Not winning the division 2 years in a row would be a good reason for them to pull the trigger on a Perez deal. (And that lets the Reds win a Series - I feel bad for them not winning a couple witht hat talent; but then I am from that part of the country.)
4. If Perez goes tot he Red Sox, and they win the '95 World Series, who is Series MVP? Looking at his numbers, in addition to the Game 6 homer, which I can't deprive baseball of for this what-if, I'd say Fisk.
5. Doe sthis make Perez more likely to make the Hall of Fame, or less? I'd say his chances are less as a Yankee, a toss-up as a Royal (depends on if he is part of a dynasty int he late '70s that wins several pennants), and more likely witht he Red Sox. Boston would increase his numbers so he could well hit .300 in '75, '77, and '78, and could have 25 homers in '75-'77, or at least a couple of those years. In addition, if trading for him puts the Red Sox over the top for the first time in generations, wow!
Interesting thought - Sparky wasn't high on George Foster because he was "too quiet" - though Foster put up good numbers. What if they package Foster with perez, move Rose to first, and get not only Hobson but Jim Rice for LF. Rice wins a World Series with the Reds in '76 but maybe not '75, is recognized as a really good player but not quite Hall-worthy most likely (though he might be if he doesn't have that wrist injury in '80 that sapped some of his power).
Don't know much about the other teams but the Boston idea for Perez is interesting.
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