Tweet
--How many players can you realistically argue a case for best player ever? I'd limit that list to 5 players plus one guy who is kind of a wild card.
--Honus Wagner is almost universally regarded as the best ever at his position - perhaps by the widest margin of anyone. He excelled at every phase of the game, excepting plate disicpline. The only real knock on him is the quality of the leagues he played in.
--Ty Cobb was easily the greatest hitter of the deadball era and may still be the best hitter for average ever to play MLB. He is perhaps the greatest baserunner ever. He was not a great CFer, but he was a good one with a defense advantage over most if not all the players who have a claim at being a better hitter. He also has league quality issues, although somewhat less than Wagner. Perhaps the bigger knock on Cobb is that he couldn't or wouldn't adapt to the power game of the liveball era.
--Babe Ruth is the greatest hitter of all time. He dominated the game like no one before or since. He does give huge amount of ground to Wagner and a significant amount to Cobb defensively - and a huge amount to both on the bases. His bat probably makes up for that unless you think a big part of that was just being in the right place at the right time with the game changing to a style only he was playing just as he hit his peak.
--Willie Mays rivals Honus Wagner as the best all around player ever. CF isn't SS, but it is an important defensive position and Mays played it as well as anyone. He also has a huge league quality advantage over Wagner.
--Barry Bonds had a run of years to rival (or possibly even surpass) Ruth as a hitter. Prior to that he was a tremendous all around player - nearly at Mays (maybe even as good if you think the league had improved much between Mays and Bonds) quality excepting his arm. The big knock on him, of course, is that he is the posterboy for steroids. None of us can know how much of his late success was aided by them, but many refuse to give him any credit at all for his great season in the 2000s. I don't agree with that, but if you ding him much at all he would fall out of this discussion.
--The wild card for me is Josh Gibson. He has been discribed as a catcher who hit like Jimmie Foxx and that is an amazing player. Whether he was really quite that good or if he sustained it for long enough is a big enough question that I can't quite up him up with the 5 MLB guys on this list, but I do rank him as bet catcher ever.
--Honus Wagner is almost universally regarded as the best ever at his position - perhaps by the widest margin of anyone. He excelled at every phase of the game, excepting plate disicpline. The only real knock on him is the quality of the leagues he played in.
--Ty Cobb was easily the greatest hitter of the deadball era and may still be the best hitter for average ever to play MLB. He is perhaps the greatest baserunner ever. He was not a great CFer, but he was a good one with a defense advantage over most if not all the players who have a claim at being a better hitter. He also has league quality issues, although somewhat less than Wagner. Perhaps the bigger knock on Cobb is that he couldn't or wouldn't adapt to the power game of the liveball era.
--Babe Ruth is the greatest hitter of all time. He dominated the game like no one before or since. He does give huge amount of ground to Wagner and a significant amount to Cobb defensively - and a huge amount to both on the bases. His bat probably makes up for that unless you think a big part of that was just being in the right place at the right time with the game changing to a style only he was playing just as he hit his peak.
--Willie Mays rivals Honus Wagner as the best all around player ever. CF isn't SS, but it is an important defensive position and Mays played it as well as anyone. He also has a huge league quality advantage over Wagner.
--Barry Bonds had a run of years to rival (or possibly even surpass) Ruth as a hitter. Prior to that he was a tremendous all around player - nearly at Mays (maybe even as good if you think the league had improved much between Mays and Bonds) quality excepting his arm. The big knock on him, of course, is that he is the posterboy for steroids. None of us can know how much of his late success was aided by them, but many refuse to give him any credit at all for his great season in the 2000s. I don't agree with that, but if you ding him much at all he would fall out of this discussion.
--The wild card for me is Josh Gibson. He has been discribed as a catcher who hit like Jimmie Foxx and that is an amazing player. Whether he was really quite that good or if he sustained it for long enough is a big enough question that I can't quite up him up with the 5 MLB guys on this list, but I do rank him as bet catcher ever.
. More importantly Mays was a top player for much longer. You can argue the point of which was better at their peaks, but Mays clearly had the better career.
Comment