I was Talking to my Grandfather the other day...

[GiambiJuice]

My grandfather is 97 years old. He was born in February 1915. His name is Alexander Silver and he lives in Tarzana, CA. He grew up in Brooklyn and Waterbury CT and he has seen Babe Ruth play. I asked him what that was like and he told me that all he really remembers about it was that it was early in the 1930s and the fans in RF seats would get on Ruth constantly ("razz him all the time" in my grandfather's words).

This was very interesting to me as I always had this perception of Ruth as being this athlete who was larger than life, almost mythical, and it just surprised me to learn that he was treated by his fans in that way after all he had done for the Yankees and for baseball. By this time I guess he was fat and out of shape so that may have had something to do with it, but he was still a very productive player through the end of his Yankee career.

Sorry for rambling, but my question for the historians would be was it common for Ruth to get "razzed" by the Yankee Stadium crowds during his final few seasons, or is my grandfather's memory perhaps a little bit fuzzy?

[JR Hart]

Your grandfather probaly has no knowledge of the mythical runs of "runs crerated", or OPS+ which really shouldn't be applied across eras and penalizes good players for their contemporaries success ( and makes a mathematical assumption that can't be proven, it's simply proportionality), or WAR which it's own proponents can't decide on what formula to use, and it's fielding component is inaccurate at best.

So the chances are that he experienced baseball with the naivity that all of us should have. I would value his opinion.

[3and2Fastball]

My Grandfather lived in Chicago and saw Ruth & Gehrig play whenever they played the White Sox. He always said that Ruth & Josh Gibson (who he also saw play) were the greatest ballplayers he had ever seen, that Ruth had a bazooka cannon for an arm from right field and that Ruth was a much faster runner in the 20's than most give him credit for.

He said that fans razzed Ruth but that the White Sox fans razzed all the Yankees

[tag0519]

I'm not sure what the answer to your question is, but I just want to say - keep talking to your Grandfather about baseball and anything else you both find good. Enjoy these day!!

-Tom

[ol' aches and pains]

Your grandfather probaly has no knowledge of the mythical runs of "runs crerated", or OPS+ which really shouldn't be applied across eras and penalizes good players for their contemporaries success ( and makes a mathematical assumption that can't be proven, it's simply proportionality), or WAR which it's own proponents can't decide on what formula to use, and it's fielding component is inaccurate at best.

So the chances are that he experienced baseball with the naivity that all of us should have. I would value his opinion.

Great post, I agree completely, especially about WAR. People who take WAR as gospel and evaluate players based on that alone are standing on very shaky ground, IMO.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

My grandfather is 97 years old. He was born in February 1915. His name is Alexander Silver and he lives in Tarzana, CA. He grew up in Brooklyn and Waterbury CT and he has seen Babe Ruth play. I asked him what that was like and he told me that all he really remembers about it was that it was early in the 1930s and the fans in RF seats would get on Ruth constantly ("razz him all the time" in my grandfather's words).

This was very interesting to me as I always had this perception of Ruth as being this athlete who was larger than life, almost mythical, and it just surprised me to learn that he was treated by his fans in that way after all he had done for the Yankees and for baseball. By this time I guess he was fat and out of shape so that may have had something to do with it, but he was still a very productive player through the end of his Yankee career.

Sorry for rambling, but my question for the historians would be was it common for Ruth to get "razzed" by the Yankee Stadium crowds during his final few seasons, or is my grandfather's memory perhaps a little bit fuzzy?

First all "razzing" is not bad and thats probably the case here. Ruth was still loved in NY even in his last years.
I've read at least a couple or few hundred game recaps that appeared in newspapers, thanks to Proquest.
It was routine for Babe to carry on conversations with the bleacher crowd from his outfield position, not only at home but at parks on the road. We know his personality, at his best when in a crowd, often working the crowd.

Here is one case, 1928 World Series in the opponents park.

Babe taking his place in the outfield after a homer off of Willie Sherdel.
Card fans furious when a "quick pitch" on Babe already with two strikes was not allowed, Cards thinking they had struck him out.
Quick pitch legal in the NL but not the AL, was already agreed that it would not be allowed in the World Series.
Cards and home crowd irate, fight umps decision. Babe adds fuel to the fire by walking out to the mound and "mock applauding" the Cards.
He then hits his second homer of the game on to the pavillion roof, tie game.
Now he returns to the outfield, crowd reaction. Babe shows his skill at working the crowd, even a hostile crowd.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

What led up to that crowd uproar. Cards on field angry over the "quick pitch" not being allowed, would have been strike three. Why I don't know, both teams agreed before the World Series it would not be allowed.

Here we see Babe going back to home plate after walking out to the mound and "rubbing it in" to the already angry Cards
Then he hits his second home run.
In the 8th inning he hits his third homer off of Alexander. And when he takes his place in the outfield, the same bleacher crowd that threw bottles at him one inning before, now stand and cheer.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Wow thats pretty crazy that even the press looked at fans throwing bottles at players was somewhat normal. You gotta be pretty tough to have bottles thrown at ya and then joke around with fans like that.

[GiambiJuice]

Wow thats pretty crazy that even the press looked at fans throwing bottles at players was somewhat normal. You gotta be pretty tough to have bottles thrown at ya and then joke around with fans like that.

Yep, not to mention the bottles are all plastic nowadays but they were heavy glass back then...

Shoeless, great posts. I never had any doubt that Ruth got heckled on the road, I guess what surprised me was that he would get it from the home fans too.

[GiambiJuice]

............

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Wow thats pretty crazy that even the press looked at fans throwing bottles at players was somewhat normal. You gotta be pretty tough to have bottles thrown at ya and then joke around with fans like that.

Cub fans in the 1932 World Series were kinder to the Bam.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Security was just about zero back then.
In 1927 after Babe hit one home run a specator jumped the rail and made off with his bat. Of course did not get far, ushers chased him down.

This actually took place, hard to believe. Babe hit number 56.
He had reason to carry the bat, this homer ended the game and someone making off with his bat could get lost in the crowd, spectators filled the field.

Bottom of the 9th Tigers up 2-1, Babe's two run homer wins game 3-2.
From The New York Times

[deadball-era-rules]

I think Ruth was subject to the fan laws that follow around almost every player (love you when you show up, snub you when your down). There were instances where even the Yankee fans would razz Ruth. 1925 was a particularly bad year for the Babe (he hit only 25 homers that year), and there were many times that he heard the less pleasant side of the hometown crowd. In one instance a particular fan razzed him so badly that he chased him into the stands with bat and hand and the rest of the team had to pull him down and hold him down on the dugout while Ruth yelled out to the crowd, calling them all 'yellow.' I gathered this information from one of his biographies.

[Dude Paskert]

Doesn't really address the '30s, but I remember reading about an ugly scene from the early '20s ('22??) when the NY crowd was getting on Babe and he lost it and challenged anybody in the crowd to come down and fight him on top of the dugout. When nobody took him up on it, Babe bellowed, "YOU'RE ALL YELLOW!!!"
I'd hope the fans were a little nicer to him and Babe was a little more calm by the '30s.

EDIT - just saw the previous post, maybe that account is more accurate and it was '25.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I think Ruth was subject to the fan laws that follow around almost every player (love you when you show up, snub you when your down). There were instances where even the Yankee fans would razz Ruth. 1925 was a particularly bad year for the Babe (he hit only 25 homers that year), and there were many times that he heard the less pleasant side of the hometown crowd. In one instance a particular fan razzed him so badly that he chased him into the stands with bat and hand and the rest of the team had to pull him down and hold him down on the dugout while Ruth yelled out to the crowd, calling them all 'yellow.' I gathered this information from one of his biographies.

Yes there were times when Ruth was razzed. But I think the razzing by home town fans is overblown. A great number of those at home Yankee games were there to see him. NY Times, in some games, Yanks blowing away a team or the Yanks way behind in runs, Ruth could come to bat in the 7th inning and after his at bat hundreds or a couple of thousand would leave the park. Obviously they thought that would probably be his last at bat, so they left.

And again what was the razzing from the bleachers all about. It was common for Babe to carry on conversations from his outfield position, there may have been some good natured teasing.

That game was May 24, 1922, Babe challenging a spectator. More to the story, he was wrong but the circumstance was he was thrown out on a close play at second and then thrown out of the game. This was when a spectator yelled something to him, then the challenge.