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Mickey Mantle vs. Eddie Collins

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  • Mickey Mantle vs. Eddie Collins

    Eddie Collins had over 3,000 career hits, Mickey Mantle had over 500 career home runs. Eddie Collins hit .333, Mickey Mantle slugged .557. They both walked a lot, scored a lot of runs and had high on-base percentages...

    ...but which one was better?
    24
    Mickey Mantle
    83.33%
    20
    Eddie Collins
    16.67%
    4

  • #2
    I will take Mantle easily over Collins. Mantle's peak was up there with the very best ever(top 5 peak ever) while Collins had a very good peak. Collins was very good all around, but he never hit with any power.

    Comment


    • #3
      boy this is a tough one

      Collins had a better and longer career and has a positional advantage but Mantle had a better peak

      Mantle was very good in post season but not as good as many believe he had some weak series too

      Collins is one of the greatest post season players in history and was known as a manager on the field

      Collins had some baserunning and OB% strengths, but these were also things Mantle did well

      Mantle was a very good CF early while Collins by all accounts was a superb 2B

      As it is I have Collins #1 2B of all time and Mantle 2-4 in CF

      Collins played well in both the dead ball and live ball eras

      If you want peak go with Mantle (also HR power but Mantle was a notorious poor 2B and 3B producer)

      if you want anything else (defense, base running, position, career) go with Collins

      I will give Collins a decision by maybe two tenths a point
      Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 08-13-2012, 04:57 PM.
      1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
      2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
      3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        I went with Eddie Collins due to the longer career.
        "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

        "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

        Comment


        • #5
          I think Mantle was easily a Top 12 to Top 15 player and I see Collins as more of a Top 25 player. Mantle played in an (at least somewhat) integrated league and had way more power. So I give the edge to Mantle...They are close though, as Collins had an even better OBP and was a truly great player too. Both were incredible in the postseason

          I've never seen Collins listed in the Top 10 of all players whereas I have seen Mantle listed that high (including by Bill James)

          Comment


          • #6
            I will add (whether I am right or wrong) Mantle has some inherent (although maybe unfair) advantages in a vote like this
            1) Mantle is more recent which means some of us may actually remember his play but with a few exceptions no one saw or know anything about Collins except what they read
            2) Mantle was a New York and American icon
            3) Mantle almost played yearly in the world series and he was clearly the best player on the best team
            4) a lot of fans relish the home run and Mantle was a great home run hitter
            Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 08-14-2012, 10:53 AM.
            1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
            2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
            3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 3and2Fastball View Post
              I think Mantle was easily a Top 12 to Top 15 player and I see Collins as more of a Top 25 player. Mantle played in an (at least somewhat) integrated league and had way more power. So I give the edge to Mantle...They are close though, as Collins had an even better OBP and was a truly great player too. Both were incredible in the postseason

              I've never seen Collins listed in the Top 10 of all players whereas I have seen Mantle listed that high (including by Bill James)
              the the first James HBA he ranks Collins 15 career and Mantle 19
              in the second edition he ranks Collins 15 career and Mantle 20
              in the 2002 edition which now included negro leaguers, he has Mantle 6 and Collins 18

              He always had Mantle rated high peak but I will also point out all a players peak years are included in his career rankings
              1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
              2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
              3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                boy this is a tough one

                Collins had a better and longer career and has a positional advantage but Mantle had a better peak

                Mantle was very good in post season but not as good as many believe he had some weak series too

                Collins is one of the greatest post season players in history and was known as a manager on the field

                Collins had some baserunning and OB% strengths, but these were also things Mantle did well

                mantle was a very good CF early while Collins by all accounts was a superb 2B

                As it is I have Collins #1 2B of all time and Mantle 2-4 in CF

                Collins played well in both the dead ball and live ball eras

                If you want peak go with Mantle

                if you want anything else (defense, base running, position, career) go with Collins

                I will give Collins a decision by maybe two tenths a point
                Wow! I never realized how well Collins did in the postseason. He faced Mathewson, Mordecai Brown, and Rube Marquard several times each from 1910-1913 in the WS. 18 innings vs M. Brown, 46 innings vs Mathewson, and 20 innings vs Marquard and Collins hits .393 during those 3 Series combined with 9 SB and 14 runs scored in 16 games. That's pretty impressive for the Dead Ball especially when you have those heavyweights tossed into the mix.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is Eddie Collins the greatest "slap hitter" in baseball history? He never once slugged .500, hit 47 career home runs, yet has a career 142 OPS+? Wow.
                  Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                    boy this is a tough one

                    Collins had a better and longer career and has a positional advantage but Mantle had a better peak

                    Mantle was very good in post season but not as good as many believe he had some weak series too

                    Collins is one of the greatest post season players in history and was known as a manager on the field

                    Collins had some baserunning and OB% strengths, but these were also things Mantle did well

                    Mantle was a very good CF early while Collins by all accounts was a superb 2B

                    As it is I have Collins #1 2B of all time and Mantle 2-4 in CF

                    Collins played well in both the dead ball and live ball eras

                    If you want peak go with Mantle (also HR power but Mantle was a notorious poor 2B and 3B producer)

                    if you want anything else (defense, base running, position, career) go with Collins

                    I will give Collins a decision by maybe two tenths a point
                    This sums it up pretty well though I put Mantle ahead. This is a good match.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I broke the deadlock by considering their performance as GMs. Collins was smart enough to buy Foxx (presumably on Yawkey's orders).
                      This is a tight and very interesting matchup, if Mantle hadn't had chewed up legs I think he would have been my choice.
                      "If I drink whiskey, I'll never get worms!" - Hack Wilson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I give more value to a good CF over a good 2B. On the other side, 2B was probably very important during the DB era. But how many 3B or SS from then could have simply slid over to the much easier position to play? I'm not sure if it was Collins having a weak arm from the left side of the infield, lack of range, or what, but he may have lucked out by playing a position where there really wasn't a whole lot of talent - at least offensively. Mantle on the other hand, put up corner-outfielder offense while playing CF with torn knees from the jump. A lot of "what ifs" here for me. Both were surrounded by major talent in their peaks - though one could make the case that Mantle was the main talent in NY while there was a guy named Joe Jackson in Chicago.

                        As so far as overcoming a ghost of the past, when it comes to Chicago (AL or NL), was there anybody previous to Evers to do anything? Mantle had to directly overcome Dimaggio - pretty big shoes to fill.

                        I'm broad-basing I know and there's no statistical stuff behind any of this. But IMO, Mantle played the toughest OF position while Collins played maybe the 2nd-easiest IF position. I have to give my vote to Mantle, but I think both were insanely good in their time.
                        "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think Eddie Collins is an Ichiro Suzuki type hitter, only much better at drawing a walk.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am wondering whether Collins really holds a significant base running edge over Mantle, at least in terms of peak. Granted, Collins led his league in stolen bases 3 times, but also led in caught stealing twice. In the years we have CS stats, Collins does not have a particularly strong SB percentage. Mantle never had the gaudy SB totals that Collins did but stolen bases weren't stressed as much in Mantle's era. Nevertheless he did have seven top ten finishes during his prime. I believe Mickey likely had better, or perhaps much better, foot speed (in his prime) than Collins. I'm inclined to think that Mantle was at least just as good a base runner as Collins in his prime while Collins has the edge over his career.

                            I tend to put more emphasis on peak value, so I voted for Mantle.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ^ decent post but the more you steal the bigger chance you have to lead the league in CS, Rickey Henderson led the league in CS 5 times, including a whopping 42 times when he set the record

                              you usually don't lead the league in CS when you steal 10 bases a year

                              the two years you mention Collins was 36 and 37 years old and still swiped 48 and 42 bases those years, both which led the league BTW

                              mantle was retired by this time in his age career

                              and since we are on the subject lets look at cobb

                              1912 61 SB 34 CS
                              1914 35 SB 17 CS
                              1921 22 SB 15 CS
                              1922 9 SB 13 CS
                              1923 9 SB 10 CS

                              I think that puts things in perspective
                              Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 08-16-2012, 10:29 PM.
                              1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                              2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                              3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                              Comment

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