Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

1992 Dream Team

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 1992 Dream Team

    On ESPN.com, David Schoenfield, wrote an article and because of the Olympics decided to pick a 1992 baseball Dream Team. I found a few of his selections a bit interesting.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...92-versus-2012

    As great as Ozzie was defensively, even in '92, I don't see how he makes the team over Larkin. Heck, forget that, how does Ripken, the starting SS on the team, beat out Larkin?

    I would also switch Puckett and Griffey defensively. McGriff would be on my team as well, in place of Winfield.

    And last but not least, Pendleton starting over Sheffield at 3rd? Listen, I know Sheffield was not a gold glove defender at 3rd base or anywhere he played and that Pendleton was good but there is no way that Pendleton's defense is enough to overtake Sheffield's offensive advantage.

    So, what do you guys think? Would you do anything differently?
    "I would walk through hell in a gasoline suit just to play baseball."-Pete Rose

  • #2
    In '91 Ripken had just had perhaps the most valuable season since Mickey Mantle '57.

    Comment


    • #3
      Baseball was really boring in the early 90's. That would be a tough team to pick. I would take Sheffield over Pendleton now but back then i'm not so sure.
      "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

      "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

      Comment


      • #4
        I am going to try and do this without clicking on the link. I will pick my own American-Born team using three criteria (aside from picking say 30 guys and spreading them out among the various positions to make a legit roster).

        One, the must have substantial career value up to that point. A body of work if you will. Enough to make him famous in 1992. This keeps guys like Gary Sheffield and Frank Thomas off the team. While both were well on their way, they don't quite have the volume of work necessary to be an Olympian by the summer of 1992. The one guy who breaks this rule is Junior Griffey because he started so young.

        You can't be too old and/or. So no Nolan Ryan, no Carlton Fisk, no Dave Winfield, no George Brett

        Three, you cannot have something hanging over you, like substance abuse sorry Darryl Strawberry or out and out decline. Sorry declining Dave Stewart and Don Mattingly. Robin Yount was on the way out too...

        Young guys at or near their peak with a good track record, certainly not one shorter than Ken Griffey Junior.

        Again, I have not read that article, so let's see if we agree: (I love doing this stuff)

        Back then folks went crazy for Batting Average. I don't think Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, and Kirby Puckett would have been left off the team. Other guys with career .300 hitters who weren't too young, too old, or too declining were Will Clark and Ken Griffey Junior. Edgar Martinez (born in NYC) got a late start or otherwise might have made the team just on batting average. I think Barry Larkin makes it here as he was in his prime with a career average of nearly .300 and he was famous enough at this point. It's close, he had less than a thousand career hits at this point.

        If George Brett or Paul Molitor really wanted to go, I don't think the Olympic Committee would have refused them entry... who knows... Let's put them on just to be safe. Molitor was still raking in 1992.

        OK, on to home run hitters not too old, not too young... about two hundred or more by 1992.
        Cal Ripken makes it here, Ryne Sandberg even though he was about to decline, no one knew it in 1992. I suppose Mark McGwire would have been left off, and people would have howled about it. Too bad. He was the right age to be an Olympian, but I think there were better first basemen in 1992, like Fred McGriff. I'd like to have Canseco and Palmeiro, but both were born in Cuba. Ruben Sierra would have been a good addition, but he was born in Puerto Rico.

        The stolen base was still around. If you consider who had 200 career steals by 1992 and they could do other things:
        Rickey Henderson and Tim Raines where 33 and 32 respectively. But I think only Henderson would have made the team.

        Ozzie Smith was 37, and I will put him on the team. The public outcry would have been deafening if we were to leave him off. He may be the team's senior citizen if we leave off Brett. Barry Bonds was in his age 27 year. Eric Davis should have been here too, but he fell apart by this time. People thought a lot of Andy Van Slyke, but he does not quite make it, IMHO.

        I don't think Danny Tartabull was famous enough. And I think Frank Thomas was too young at this point, really. Both have the right stats, but they just miss for different reasons, IMHO. I think Eddie Murray just misses.

        What to do about catcher... Look at the All-Starts in 1992, 1991, 1990, 1989 in no particular order:

        NL: Benito Santiago (4), Darren Daulton, Tom Pagnozzi, Craig Biggio, Mike Scioscia (2), Greg Olson, Tony Pena
        AL: Sandy Alomar (3), Ivan Rodriguez, Carlton Fisk, Lance Parrish, Terry Steinbach, Mickey Tettleton

        Carlton Fisk was at the end of his career, Mike Scioscia too. Darren Daulton was just starting his two great seasons. Craig Biggio was just moving to second base. Many of the guys above are foreign born. Mike Piazza was a year away. Here's a thought....

        Terry Steinbach and Mike Scioscia make the most sense because of their ages. Carlton Fisk can play in the Gold Medal Game and help George Brett draw a the older fan base. Craig Biggio would serve as not only another catcher, but as the alternate second baseman. Catching is tough here, as teams were making it into the World Series without a top flight catcher in this era.

        These are tough calls, because in 1992 I really believe all the best players were in the downside of their careers and may of the American-born guys who should have been among the best while still in their prime just fell apart. See: Darryl Strawberry, Don Mattingly and Eric Davis and Kal Daniels and Glenn Davis for details. Only ten players had career slugging percentages over.500 in 1992. I have named eight of them. Add Cecil Fielder and Kevin Mitchell and that's your list. This means much of the league was bunched together. It must be time to expand the league or something...

        That's Eighteen hitters. Maybe we can live with just sixteen of those guys. I think that removes Barry Larkin and Mike Scioscia...

        C- Carlton Fisk, Terry Steinbach
        1B- Will Clark, Fred McGriff
        2B- Ryne Sandberg, Craig Biggio
        3B- Wade Boggs, George Brett
        SS- Cal Ripken, Ozzie Smith
        LF- Rickey Henderson, Barry Bonds
        CF- Kirby Puckett, Ken Griffey Jr.
        RF- Tony Gwynn
        DH- Paul Molitor


        How about Fourteen pitchers?

        Ok, the big question here is... would Nolan Ryan want to attend? This was his age 45 season. I am guessing yes. And if THAT is the case, then age is not a factor here with everyone else. How could it be? I will go into less detail here. You don't have to imagine, as I will say my methodology is the same as with the hitters except FAME here matters a tad more. I will list them roughly by career wins up thru 1992 just for fun:

        Nolan Ryan, Jack Morris, Dennis Eckersley, Roger Clemens, Dwight Gooden, Mark Langston, Orel Hershiser, Greg Maddux, David Cone, Lee Smith, Kevin Brown, Jim Abbott (remember him?), Tom Henke and maybe Jimmy Key.

        This particular season is a bad time to send Randy Johnson or Randy Myers if you look at their career records carefully. Unit was walking a ton of batters and Myers' ERA was up a bit. If I needed another left handed pitcher, I think Jimmy Key would have been a good choice. Perhaps Brown or Gooden would have been left off. I am guessing Gooden for off the field reasons. I also think very few relief pitchers would have been selected. It would have taken a stroke of genius to send Tom Henke even though he was much deserving at the time. Famous, notsomuch.

        There you go! (pause) Looking back, I am still wondering if Frank Thomas should be here. It might depend on who is making the selections. He was such an imposing player, even at the very start of his career. And Fred McGriff also bats left, just like Will Clark. The lack of a right handed power hitter may or may not be a concern here... Maybe I overestimate the story and the buzz that would be generated by sending Jim Abbott, but that kind of thing happens ALL the time.

        (pause... go read the article)

        LOL There is no way Terry Pendleton goes to the Olympics. The timing would be perfect, considering he had two great years, and they just happened to be in 1991 and 1992... but let's not forget the men in the American League. I would say more, but the author is looking at that particular year and moment in time very closely. (Rob Dibble, Jack McDowell, Tom Glavine) Fine. I was more into name recognition and track record heading into 1992. It's style, or opinion here. Or just a matter of choice...
        Last edited by Second Base Coach; 08-15-2012, 02:16 AM.
        Your Second Base Coach
        Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey started 833 times and the Dodgers went 498-335, for a .598 winning percentage. That’s equal to a team going 97-65 over a season. On those occasions when at least one of them missed his start, the Dodgers were 306-267-1, which is a .534 clip. That works out to a team going 87-75. So having all four of them added 10 wins to the Dodgers per year.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Second Base Coach View Post
          I am going to try and do this without clicking on the link. I will pick my own American-Born team using three criteria (aside from picking say 30 guys and spreading them out among the various positions to make a legit roster).

          One, the must have substantial career value up to that point. A body of work if you will. Enough to make him famous in 1992. This keeps guys like Gary Sheffield and Frank Thomas off the team. While both were well on their way, they don't quite have the volume of work necessary to be an Olympian by the summer of 1992. The one guy who breaks this rule is Junior Griffey because he started so young.

          You can't be too old and/or. So no Nolan Ryan, no Carlton Fisk, no Dave Winfield, no George Brett

          Three, you cannot have something hanging over you, like substance abuse sorry Darryl Strawberry or out and out decline. Sorry declining Dave Stewart and Don Mattingly. Robin Yount was on the way out too...

          Young guys at or near their peak with a good track record, certainly not one shorter than Ken Griffey Junior.

          Again, I have not read that article, so let's see if we agree: (I love doing this stuff)

          Back then folks went crazy for Batting Average. I don't think Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, and Kirby Puckett would have been left off the team. Other guys with career .300 hitters who weren't too young, too old, or too declining were Will Clark and Ken Griffey Junior. Edgar Martinez (born in NYC) got a late start or otherwise might have made the team just on batting average. I think Barry Larkin makes it here as he was in his prime with a career average of nearly .300 and he was famous enough at this point. It's close, he had less than a thousand career hits at this point.

          If George Brett or Paul Molitor really wanted to go, I don't think the Olympic Committee would have refused them entry... who knows... Let's put them on just to be safe. Molitor was still raking in 1992.

          OK, on to home run hitters not too old, not too young... about two hundred or more by 1992.
          Cal Ripken makes it here, Ryne Sandberg even though he was about to decline, no one knew it in 1992. I suppose Mark McGwire would have been left off, and people would have howled about it. Too bad. He was the right age to be an Olympian, but I think there were better first basemen in 1992, like Fred McGriff. I'd like to have Canseco and Palmeiro, but both were born in Cuba. Ruben Sierra would have been a good addition, but he was born in Puerto Rico.

          The stolen base was still around. If you consider who had 200 career steals by 1992 and they could do other things:
          Rickey Henderson and Tim Raines where 33 and 32 respectively. But I think they would have made the team.
          Ozzie Smith was 37, and I will put him on the team. The public outcry would have been deafening if we were to leave him off. He may be the team's senior citizen if we leave off Brett. Barry Bonds was in his age 27 year. Eric Davis should have been here too, but he fell apart by this time. People thought a lot of Andy Van Slyke, but he does not quite make it, IMHO.

          I don't think Danny Tartabull was famous enough. And I think Frank Thomas was too young at this point, really. Both have the right stats, but they just miss for different reasons, IMHO. I think Eddie Murray just misses. Below in no particular order we have so far:

          C-
          1B- Will Clark, Fred McGriff
          2B- Ryne Sandberg
          3B- Wade Boggs, George Brett
          SS- Barry Larkin, Cal Ripken, Ozzie Smith
          LF- Rickey Henderson, Tim Raines, Barry Bonds
          CF- Kirby Puckett, Ken Griffey Jr.
          RF- Tony Gwynn
          DH- Paul Molitor

          These are tough calls, because in 1992 I really believe all the best players were in the downside of their careers and may of the American-born guys who should have been among the best while still in their prime just fell apart. See: Darryl Strawberry, Don Mattingly and Eric Davis and Kal Daniels and Glenn Davis for details. Only ten players had career slugging percentages over.500 in 1992. I have named eight of them. Add Cecil Fielder and Kevin Mitchell and that's your list. This means much of the league was bunched together. It must be time to expand the league or something...

          ** saved to here**
          Wow second base coach I don't think God coulda said that better.
          "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

          "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by brett View Post
            In '91 Ripken had just had perhaps the most valuable season since Mickey Mantle '57.
            True. He had a historically great season, especially for a SS, but a dismal follow up in '92.
            "I would walk through hell in a gasoline suit just to play baseball."-Pete Rose

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
              Wow second base coach I don't think God coulda said that better.
              Thanks bro! What do you think of my final post?
              Your Second Base Coach
              Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey started 833 times and the Dodgers went 498-335, for a .598 winning percentage. That’s equal to a team going 97-65 over a season. On those occasions when at least one of them missed his start, the Dodgers were 306-267-1, which is a .534 clip. That works out to a team going 87-75. So having all four of them added 10 wins to the Dodgers per year.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

              Comment

              Ad Widget

              Collapse
              Working...
              X