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Most Hated Yet Respected Player Ever

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  • #46
    Originally posted by leecemark View Post
    --Williams was not popular with the press and the fans took a long time to warm up to him, but his teammates were very fond of him. Pete Rose was popular with fans, the media and teammates (at least publically) while active. Cobb and Bonds were unpopular with teammates which is really the bigger problem (Hornsby too, but he was popular with fans and the press to the best of my knowledge). I really don't know much of what Albert Belle's relationship with teammates was.
    this is a series of sweeping generalities that as one poster already pointed out are just wrong

    Jeff Kent is a redneck jerk and not getting along with him is not a sign that all of Bonds teammates did not get along with him and to insinuate this is just wrong

    as for WIlliams getting along with all his teammates I can say Rudy York among others abhorred him and his selfishness and if Williams was such a great teammate, why did he skip the 1946 Championship party in a fit of self anger?
    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
    2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
    3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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    • #47
      --I didn't say he was liked by ALL his teamates. Nobody is liked by everyone or disliked by everyone. Much as you like to repeat the story of Williams skipping a party in 1946 its not exactly the defining event in the man's life. Get some new material.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by leecemark View Post
        --Williams was not popular with the press and the fans took a long time to warm up to him, but his teammates were very fond of him. Pete Rose was popular with fans, the media and teammates (at least publically) while active. Cobb and Bonds were unpopular with teammates which is really the bigger problem (Hornsby too, but he was popular with fans and the press to the best of my knowledge). I really don't know much of what Albert Belle's relationship with teammates was.
        I know Jim Tabor started pounding on Splinter when he was a young player and purposedly didn't hustle in the OF because he was wronged somehow, but I think Ted got past the team problems quickly once they saw how hard he worked on his game (hitting primarily, of course, but he did put enough effort into his fielding to become a master of The Wall). I don't think he had any unusual problems with teammates after WWII.
        "If I drink whiskey, I'll never get worms!" - Hack Wilson

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        • #49
          Originally posted by leecemark View Post
          --I didn't say he was liked by ALL his teamates. Nobody is liked by everyone or disliked by everyone. Much as you like to repeat the story of Williams skipping a party in 1946 its not exactly the defining event in the man's life. Get some new material.
          one successful season in a 21 year career and he has the gaul to skip the party says A LOT about him, that it upsets your theories doesnt matter, it happened
          1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
          2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
          3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #50
            What's up with all this Ted Williams hate!!!??? We all know (by research) that Williams was a jerk, and was widely hated by most fans. But the topic here is if anyone from say, the Yankees, despised him so much but still wanted him on the team. I think not, since all i can see is that in his time, people saw him as a bad person and a bad fielder. Only Red Sox fans compared him to Ruth, and now thanks to the advanced statistics we can truly recognized his value as a hitter. Nobody wanted Teddy Ballgame on their teams, and that's saying something.
            "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
            George Brett

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            • #51
              Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
              one successful season in a 21 year career and he has the gaul to skip the party says A LOT about him, that it upsets your theories doesnt matter, it happened
              I think his teammates understood by that time that he wasn't a party guy, hated all types of functions and having to dress up at all. The fact that the guy spent a huge chunk of his life fishing tells you that he loves solitude. I would guess that the team was way more upset about being forced to play in some meaningless exhibition before the '46 WS that resulted in Ted being hit by a pitch and having a swollen elbow for the most critical games the team had played in decades.

              BTW, he wasn't French. ;^)
              "If I drink whiskey, I'll never get worms!" - Hack Wilson

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              • #52
                Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                What's up with all this Ted Williams hate!!!??? We all know (by research) that Williams was a jerk, and was widely hated by most fans. But the topic here is if anyone from say, the Yankees, despised him so much but still wanted him on the team. I think not, since all i can see is that in his time, people saw him as a bad person and a bad fielder. Only Red Sox fans compared him to Ruth, and now thanks to the advanced statistics we can truly recognized his value as a hitter. Nobody wanted Teddy Ballgame on their teams, and that's saying something.
                --Its hard to imagine that nobody wanted Williams on their team. Do you have any quotes from players, managers, etc saying such?

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                • #53
                  Leece, what i haven't found is other teams fans drooling for him. Not to get carried away, but Yankee fans hated Pedro so much that they even created the Daddy chant at the end of his career. But when Pedro was GOD (1999-2000), Yankee fans would've traded anyone except Jeter to get him. That's Respect. I think that Cobb, as hated as he was, got more consideration than Williams. Same for Robinson.
                  "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                  George Brett

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                  • #54
                    Also, Bill Simmons has a yearly running NBA Trade Value column that describes which players are most valuable counting many aspects of what you'd want from a player. Tim Duncan and Shaq ruled the early 00's, and now Lebron and Howard rule the 10's. Let's say that in the 1940's you would've conduct this same column, as a player poll, how did you think it would go? I think it would go this way:

                    1. Joe Dimaggio
                    2. Stan Musial
                    3. Bob Feller
                    4. Lou Boudreau
                    5. Hal Newhouser
                    6. Charlie Keller
                    7. Joe Gordon
                    8. Marty Marion
                    9. Mel Ott
                    10. Phil Cavaretta

                    Trust me, nobody would have wanted to pay for a moody and weak defensive outfielder althoug he'd hit a lot. Nowadays something similar happened to players like Clemens, Ramirez and other problematic ballplayers.
                    "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                    George Brett

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                      Also, Bill Simmons has a yearly running NBA Trade Value column that describes which players are most valuable counting many aspects of what you'd want from a player. Tim Duncan and Shaq ruled the early 00's, and now Lebron and Howard rule the 10's. Let's say that in the 1940's you would've conduct this same column, as a player poll, how did you think it would go? I think it would go this way:

                      1. Joe Dimaggio
                      2. Stan Musial
                      3. Bob Feller
                      4. Lou Boudreau
                      5. Hal Newhouser
                      6. Charlie Keller
                      7. Joe Gordon
                      8. Marty Marion
                      9. Mel Ott
                      10. Phil Cavaretta

                      Trust me, nobody would have wanted to pay for a moody and weak defensive outfielder althoug he'd hit a lot. Nowadays something similar happened to players like Clemens, Ramirez and other problematic ballplayers.
                      In the 1940s or 1950s there is no way that Ted Williams would not make a list like this. I doubt if Charlie Keller, Mel Ott or Phil Cavaretta would have made the list. Before the war players like Pete Reiser, Cecil Travis, Bill Nicholson, Barney McCosky, Tom Henrich, Ken Keltner, Sam Chapman and Walter Judnich would have probably made the list. After the war Pee Wee Reese, Jackie Robinson, Vern Stephens and Joe Page would probably make the list.

                      EDIT: other players who could have made each list: John Mize and Enos Slaughter.
                      Last edited by EdTarbusz; 08-23-2012, 10:15 AM.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
                        In the 1940s or 1950s there is no way that Ted Williams would not make a list like this. I doubt if Charlie Keller, Mel Ott or Phil Cavaretta would have made the list. Before the war players like Pete Reiser, Cecil Travis, Bill Nicholson, Barney McCosky, Tom Henrich, Ken Keltner, Sam Chapman and Walter Judnich would have probably made the list. After the war Pee Wee Reese, Jackie Robinson, Vern Stephens and Joe Page would probably make the list.
                        Trust me, no Brooklyn Dodger would've made this list. Although Bill Nicholson was my bad.
                        "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                        George Brett

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
                          In the 1940s or 1950s there is no way that Ted Williams would not make a list like this. I doubt if Charlie Keller, Mel Ott or Phil Cavaretta would have made the list. Before the war players like Pete Reiser, Cecil Travis, Bill Nicholson, Barney McCosky, Tom Henrich, Ken Keltner, Sam Chapman and Walter Judnich would have probably made the list. After the war Pee Wee Reese, Jackie Robinson, Vern Stephens and Joe Page would probably make the list.
                          Trust me, no Brooklyn Dodger would've made this list. Although Bill Nicholson was my bad.
                          "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                          George Brett

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                            Trust me, no Brooklyn Dodger would've made this list. Although Bill Nicholson was my bad.
                            A list from that era would have been top heavy with Dodgers and Cardinals for the NL representatives.

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                            • #59
                              In fact, Tom Yawkey [BOSOX] and Larry McPhail [YANKEES] agreed to a trade of Ted Williams for Joe DiMaggio. Yawkey insisted that Yogi Berra be added to sweeten the pot; and THAT is what killed the deal. It was 1949.

                              As it turned out, the Sox would have been royally screwed on that deal.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by leewileyfan View Post
                                In fact, Tom Yawkey [BOSOX] and Larry McPhail [YANKEES] agreed to a trade of Ted Williams for Joe DiMaggio. Yawkey insisted that Yogi Berra be added to sweeten the pot; and THAT is what killed the deal. It was 1949.

                                As it turned out, the Sox would have been royally screwed on that deal.
                                1949, Williams's MVP season, and Dimaggio going downhill. That sounds fair...
                                "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                                George Brett

                                Comment

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