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How come Rajah doesn't get enough love?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
    DiMaggio is in the top 5 RHH, going by strictly batting. I don't underrate the Rahjah. Probably the best RHH ever and certainly the best 2b ever.

    See we can get along.... Now that you mentioned, the top 5 RHH of all time should be, by strictly batting, not counting 19th Century:

    1. Roger Hornsby
    2. Harry Heilmann
    3. Riggs Stephenson
    4. Al Simmons
    5. Honus Wagner
    6. Jimmie Foxx
    7. Albert Pujols
    8. Joe Dimaggio
    9. Joe Medwick
    10. Kiki Cuyler

    Your man Dimaggio is 8th, and I'm not counting Nap Lajoie since he played half his career in the 19th Century.
    "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
    George Brett

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
      DiMaggio is in the top 5 RHH, going by strictly batting. I don't underrate the Rahjah. Probably the best RHH ever and certainly the best 2b ever.
      From the year 1936, Dimaggio's first season to the year 2012, only one other right handed hitter other then Joe has batted for .325 or better in a career, Albert Pujols.

      Dimaggio finished at .325 and Albert is at .325.
      Simple math, in the last 76 years only 2 RH batters have hit for .320 or better, third was Kirby Puckett at .318.
      It's all about facing the greater number of RH pitchers in the game, favors the LH batters.
      Roger at .358, a hitting machine.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
        From the year 1936, Dimaggio's first season to the year 2012, only one other right handed hitter other then Joe has batted for .325 or better in a career, Albert Pujols.

        Dimaggio finished at .325 and Albert is at .325.
        Simple math, in the last 76 years only 2 RH batters have hit for .320 or better, third was Kirby Puckett at .318.
        It's all about facing the greater number of RH pitchers in the game, favors the LH batters.
        Roger at .358, a hitting machine.

        Can you tell me when is the beggining of modern baseball? So we can ponder players accordingly. I thought it was in the 1920's. Oh, and Joe D hit .3246. Not .325. :P
        "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
        George Brett

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        • #19
          Originally posted by yankillaz View Post

          See we can get along.... Now that you mentioned, the top 5 RHH of all time should be, by strictly batting, not counting 19th Century:

          1. Roger Hornsby
          2. Harry Heilmann
          3. Riggs Stephenson
          4. Al Simmons
          5. Honus Wagner
          6. Jimmie Foxx
          7. Albert Pujols
          8. Joe Dimaggio
          9. Joe Medwick
          10. Kiki Cuyler

          Your man Dimaggio is 8th, and I'm not counting Nap Lajoie since he played half his career in the 19th Century.
          Well , by one stat maybe. I doubt if too many rate Riggs ove Joe D, or Heilman or Simmons
          This week's Giant

          #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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          • #20
            Originally posted by yankillaz View Post

            Can you tell me when is the beggining of modern baseball? So we can ponder players accordingly. I thought it was in the 1920's. Oh, and Joe D hit .3246. Not .325. :P
            Your correct,.3246, most baating averages are rounded off.
            Most consider the year 1900 as the beginning of the modern era. Becaause there were so many changes being made in the game prior to 1900.
            I always consider the "foul strike rule" when judging and ranking hitters that played anytime before 1901 in the NL and 1903 in the AL.
            Before 1901 in the NL and 1903 in the AL, any foul ball hit was not recorded as a strike, hugh advantage to the batter and could effect batting average and other hitting stats.

            Think about it, the batter fouls off 3 or 4, or a dozen balls and he has no strikes on him. John McGraw and Willie Keeler were experts at fouling off pitches, spoiling possible "called strikes" and no strikes until they got a pitch they liked and then driving the ball.
            Imagine Rod Carew or Tony Gwynn to great bat handlers playing under that rule, .400 season for sure.

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            • #21
              JR Hart, you made the rules of taking BA. as "strictly" the only stat to make that list.

              ShoelessJoe3, I'm entirely positive that both Carew and Gwynn would've batted .400 in the early 1900's, but we can ponder Joe D as having the second best RHH BA since .1936, but I put the list since 1900's, hence his 8th spot.

              "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
              George Brett

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              • #22
                My top 5 RH hitters:

                1. R. Hornsby
                2. J. Foxx
                3. F. Thomas
                4. J. Dimaggio
                5. H. Greenberg
                My top 10 players:

                1. Babe Ruth
                2. Barry Bonds
                3. Ty Cobb
                4. Ted Williams
                5. Willie Mays
                6. Alex Rodriguez
                7. Hank Aaron
                8. Honus Wagner
                9. Lou Gehrig
                10. Mickey Mantle

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                • #23
                  Nice to see that top 5. Pujols isn't there yet is he?
                  "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                  George Brett

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                    JR Hart, you made the rules of taking BA. as "strictly" the only stat to make that list.

                    ShoelessJoe3, I'm entirely positive that both Carew and Gwynn would've batted .400 in the early 1900's, but we can ponder Joe D as having the second best RHH BA since .1936, but I put the list since 1900's, hence his 8th spot.

                    Got that, your list is the one that most would refer to, modern times.
                    I only posted 1936 to the present, to compare him to other RH hitters playing from his first year to the present.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                      Nice to see that top 5. Pujols isn't there yet is he?
                      I want to see how he declines. If Pujols retired today, he'd just miss my top 5. Obviously I give Greenberg full credit for WW2.
                      My top 10 players:

                      1. Babe Ruth
                      2. Barry Bonds
                      3. Ty Cobb
                      4. Ted Williams
                      5. Willie Mays
                      6. Alex Rodriguez
                      7. Hank Aaron
                      8. Honus Wagner
                      9. Lou Gehrig
                      10. Mickey Mantle

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                      • #26
                        Rajah became my favorite player I never saw play almost immediately when I started reading about baseball history about 15 years ago. I have to say I do agree that he was an underrated player back then though I'm not so sure about today. I think now he gets a bit more respect. I've often mentioned him with my friends who like ball and almost all of them were amazed when they actually took a look and saw what he produced. I always heard the same names - Ruth, Cobb, Gehrig, Mays, Aaron, Bench, etc - and they all deserve mention. But often I would have seen greatest player ever lists back in the day and see Horns in the 20-25 area. I was floored.
                        "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

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                        • #27
                          My view of Hornsby has changed a lot since I joined BBF. I'm gained quite a bit of admiration and respect for The Rajah as a player. IMO he is one the game's greatest players. I know he gets knocked for having a "short career" but he did just fall short of 3,000 hits (2,930). We can only imagine what he could have done if he had a "normal" decline.
                          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                          • #28
                            Little known Hornsby factoid: he holds the single season batting record (modern day, say, since 1900) for three different franchises; .424 with the Cards, .387 with the Braves, and .380 with the Cubs. Considering he only played one season with the Braves and one full season with Chicago (and one other season with 100 games), that's pretty impressive.
                            "Here's a crazy thought I've always had: if they cut three fingers off each hand, I'd really be a great hitter because then I could level off better." Paul Waner (lifetime .333 hitter, 3,152 lifetime hits.

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                            • #29
                              Rajah is one of a kind, for whatever reason he's not a Bill James pet, and King James' spin is pretty potent. To me, Rajah is top 10-ish all time and shouldn't be shorted that way, baggage or not. Alexander's bio of Rog was pretty fair minded.

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                              • #30
                                I have written to several of the Reds from his managerial years in Cincinnati and with the exception of one player, everyone despised him and even today that has not subsided. Several of them had very derogatory things to say about him. I would assume that he had communication issues for his entire career.

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