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is Miguel Cabrera on his way to becoming an all time hitter??

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  • #46
    Sometimes I just don't understand OPS+. Take Manny's 1999. .333 BA, .442 OBP, 44 home runs, 165 RBI (I know, irreverent to OPS+). That looks like it should easily be 200, but it's only 174. To me, that's far better than A-Rod's 2007 or some of Pujols' best years, yet they posted higher OPS+'s. And how about Dick Allen's 1972? Nothing screams 199 OPS+ about that season at all.
    Last edited by White Knight; 09-05-2012, 09:46 AM.
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

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    • #47
      Remeber OPS+ is relative to league. To cite your examples 1972 was a low scoring year for the AL while 1999 was, well you know. Think about it as how you would rate a time for a 100 yard dash or mile for a kid. The answer would be different for an 11 year old and a 15 year old even if the times are identical.

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      • #48
        I look For a 10 year run of 180+ Ops+ in the 1920s. In order to adjust for era, I subtract 5 ops+ for 20 years, except the war raided 1940s. Thus, 180 in 1950 is like 170 in 1990 and so on. Thus, 180 in 1920s is like 160 now.
        Last edited by pheasant; 09-05-2012, 12:00 PM.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by pheasant View Post
          I look For a 10 year run of 180+ Ops+ in the 1920s. In order to adjust for era, I subtract 5 ops+ for 20 years, except the war raided 1940s. Thus, 180 in 1950 is like 170 in 1990 and so on. Thus, 180 in 1920s is like 160 now.
          Can someone please list a 10 year run of 180+ for any player??

          I assume Ruth, Williams, Bonds, Gehrig, Hornsby and Mantle must be the only players to make the cut then. Probably add Brouthers. Cobb did it too. Big Mac barely. That's it. At least by your specs.
          "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
          George Brett

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          • #50
            Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
            Can someone please list a 10 year run of 180+ for any player??

            I assume Ruth, Williams, Bonds, Gehrig, Hornsby and Mantle must be the only players to make the cut then. Probably add Brouthers. Cobb did it too. Big Mac barely. That's it. At least by your specs.
            In the 20s six players who qualified for the batting title had at least one 180 OPS+ season: Speaker, Sisler, Heilmann, Gehrig, Hornsby, and Ruth. No one had a run of ten (including but not limited to the 20s) because of Ruth's 1925 season, which divided his 1918-1932 performance in two strings.

            There was one run of ten ever, Cobb from 1909 to 1918.
            Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 09-06-2012, 08:30 PM.
            Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
              In the 20s six players who qualified for the batting title had at least one 180 OPS+ season: Speaker, Sisler, Heilmann, Gehrig, Hornsby, and Ruth. No one had a run of ten (including but not limited to the 20s) because of Ruth's 1925 season, which divided his 1918-1932 performance in two strings.

              There was one run of ten ever, Cobb from 1909 to 1918.
              How about averaging 180 over a 10 year span? That is a bit more common.
              Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

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              • #52
                Originally posted by White Knight View Post
                How about averaging 180 over a 10 year span? That is a bit more common.
                Oh, sorry, no doubt that's what was wanted. That's a little harder For me to frame using BB Ref, but I will give it a shot if no one else does.

                (Back again)

                I come up with the following hitters who have averaged 180 or more over ten years or longer:

                Ruth, Bonds, Williams, Cobb, Hornsby, Gehrig, Brouthers, Mantle, and McGwire.
                Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 09-07-2012, 02:16 AM.
                Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
                  Remeber OPS+ is relative to league. To cite your examples 1972 was a low scoring year for the AL while 1999 was, well you know. Think about it as how you would rate a time for a 100 yard dash or mile for a kid. The answer would be different for an 11 year old and a 15 year old even if the times are identical.
                  Take a look at the batting league leaders for the AL in '72 and then take another look at Allen's season...I think he was basically the only hitter who did much that year. All kinds of AL pitchers had low ERAs with 300+ innings that season, unless memory fails me.
                  Last edited by Dude Paskert; 09-08-2012, 05:46 PM.
                  "If I drink whiskey, I'll never get worms!" - Hack Wilson

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                    Can someone please list a 10 year run of 180+ for any player??

                    I assume Ruth, Williams, Bonds, Gehrig, Hornsby and Mantle must be the only players to make the cut then. Probably add Brouthers. Cobb did it too. Big Mac barely. That's it. At least by your specs.
                    Actually, I mentioned 180 OPS+ by 1920s' standards. I used a 5 OPS+ drop for every 20 years(excluding the 1940s, which I put on par with the 1930s or even the 1920s)

                    Thus, 180 OPS+ in the 1920s is like:

                    170 in the 1950s
                    165 in the 1970s
                    160 in the 1990s
                    155 in the 2010s

                    Now granted, the drop in OPS+ isn't necessarily a linear one. It may be more of a logarithmic one. But so far, I'll go with this linear drop. I.e, recently, we can now add players like Frank Thomas, Albert Pujols, Manny Ramirez, etc.

                    Of course, there are exceptions to this. Guys like Dimaggio and Piazza make my list. I'd even argue that adjusted for era, Piazza cracks the top 3 righties ever, behind Hornsby and Pujols.
                    Last edited by pheasant; 09-07-2012, 11:01 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by pheasant View Post
                      Actually, I mentioned 180 OPS+ by 1920s' standards. I used a 5 OPS+ drop for every 20 years(excluding the 1940s, which I put on par with the 1930s or even the 1920s)

                      Thus, 180 OPS+ in the 1920s is like:

                      170 in the 1950s
                      165 in the 1970s
                      160 in the 1990s
                      155 in the 2010s

                      Now granted, the drop in OPS+ isn't necessarily a linear one. It may be more of a logarithmic one. But so far, I'll go with this linear drop. I.e, recently, we can now add players like Frank Thomas, Albert Pujols, Manny Ramirez, etc.

                      Of course, there are exceptions to this. Guys like Dimaggio and Piazza make my list. I'd even argue that adjusted for era, Piazza cracks the top 3 righties ever, behind Hornsby and Pujols.
                      This drop is because? LQ? Larger leagues?
                      "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                      George Brett

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by pheasant View Post
                        Actually, I mentioned 180 OPS+ by 1920s' standards. I used a 5 OPS+ drop for every 20 years(excluding the 1940s, which I put on par with the 1930s or even the 1920s)

                        Thus, 180 OPS+ in the 1920s is like:

                        170 in the 1950s
                        165 in the 1970s
                        160 in the 1990s
                        155 in the 2010s

                        Now granted, the drop in OPS+ isn't necessarily a linear one. It may be more of a logarithmic one. But so far, I'll go with this linear drop. I.e, recently, we can now add players like Frank Thomas, Albert Pujols, Manny Ramirez, etc.

                        Of course, there are exceptions to this. Guys like Dimaggio and Piazza make my list. I'd even argue that adjusted for era, Piazza cracks the top 3 righties ever, behind Hornsby and Pujols.
                        So that means, that if we put 2001-2004 Bonds into the 1920s, he comes up with about a 350 OPS+ :-o

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