Who are the smartest base stealers ever?

[Yankillaz]

I think percentage wise one could have an idea, but this question merits more than that.

For instance, when running the bases, Robbie Alomar always got caught by slower infielders or catchers, meaning he wasn't that fast. Yet he stole over 50 two times, and percentage wise, late in his career he was one of the best. So what gives?

I assume that Tim Raines has to be there, but who else can we add? Like a top ten or something?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Davey Lopes and Carlos Beltran in his younger years come to mind.

[Dude Paskert]

Dale Murphy wasn't blazing fast, but seemed to be able to spot situations where he could steal at low risk.
Davey Lopes looked like he needed a walker late in his career (Cubs era), but was still just tremendous at stealing bases.
Bill James wrote that Joe Morgan was famous for picking up pitchouts...somehow he'd spot somebody acting a bit different and wouldn't budge on them. I didn't see him enough to comment on that, but it's pretty obvious in general that Joe was a smart ballplayer (and a remarkably stupid announcer).

[Ben Grimm]

Chase Utley isn't all that fast either, but had a knack of being smart and picking his spots. 116 SB vs 14 CS (89%) says it all.

[westsidegrounds]

Max Carey, no doubt about it. Over a six-year stretch from 1920 through 1925 he had 286 SB and 56 Cs, including an incredible 102-10 combined in 1922-23.

Those aren't his only good years either, not by a long shot - for example, 61-17 in 1913; 63-19 in 1916.

[Ubiquitous]

The guys who were the smartest baserunners ever were the guys who knew they were terrible and didn't try to steal bases.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

The guys who were the smartest baserunners ever were the guys who knew they were terrible and didn't try to steal bases.

Johnny Estrada. I am faster than this man

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

There exists the statistic "Runs from Baserunning" to depict how much better/worse a player was in baserunning situations. I have no idea how worthy this stat is or the all-time leader, but there it is.

[Jackaroo Dave]

The guys who were the smartest baserunners ever were the guys who knew they were terrible and didn't try to steal bases.

Gus Triandos was 1-for-1. I guess he just waited for his opportunity and then took it.

[brett]

Max Carey, no doubt about it. Over a six-year stretch from 1920 through 1925 he had 286 SB and 56 Cs, including an incredible 102-10 combined in 1922-23.

Those aren't his only good years either, not by a long shot - for example, 61-17 in 1913; 63-19 in 1916.

And that was still largely in a time when runners got a chunk of their CS when they were hung up on botched hit and run attempts.

[brett]

Tony Gwynn said he Larry Walker was the best all around base runner in the game circa 1997. WAR baserunning has him at +40 baserunning runs, and that includes steals, and also I believe for many players, advances on the hits of others. Walker rates a plus baserunner in 12 of 15 seasons even though he didn't steal that much.

I think Mays was smart because he didn't need to steal so much, and he saved himself for going from first to third at an awesome clip. Having a runner on second tend to lower the batter's hitting rates (maybe in part because he can be pitched
around if the pitcher falls behind) but Joe Morgan mentioned at one point that it affected his ability to see the pitch. That's why Rose stopped stealing at one point. Mays is +77 runs. He was nearly as plus even in years with sub 10 steal totals.

Carlton Fisk was considered to be a "smart" baserunner. I saw him pull the delayed steal a couple of times. He was +11 which has to be good for a catcher, and despite probably being break even on steals with 128 steals and 58 CS. Still that's impressive for a catcher.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

It is well known Mays would not stretch singles into doubles because they would then walk McCovey

this deprived Mays of some hitting stats as well as SB

[leewileyfan]

Two players who are/were opportunistic base stealers are Derek Jeter and Jackie Robinson. Contemporary reports have stated that Rogers Hornsby, NOT a base stealer, was very effective turning on his considerable speed taking extra bases on batted balls.

[ol' aches and pains]

Carlton Fisk was considered to be a "smart" baserunner. I saw him pull the delayed steal a couple of times. He was +11 which has to be good for a catcher, and despite probably being break even on steals with 128 steals and 58 CS. Still that's impressive for a catcher.

I came to this thread specifically to add Fisk to the discussion, but I'm a day late and a dollar short. But just to add anecdotal evidence, I saw Fisk steal two bases in a game in 1990. He was 42 years old at the time.

[westsidegrounds]

Bobby Murcer was great at the delayed steal. I din't know if it helped his teams much, but it sure was fun to watch.