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The 10 biggest errors in baseball history

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    ipitch
    Registered User

  • ipitch
    replied
    Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
    I think even if Buckner came up with the ball Wilson would have easily beaten him to first. The Red Sox pitcher was really let off the hook because I think he would have been the goat if Buckner made the play and the pitcher wasn't there to cover first.
    Stanley took off for 1st base as soon as the ball was hit.

    It's been debated for years as to whether Mookie would have been safe anyway. I say there's no chance that he "would easily beaten him (Buckner) to first". Watching the replay, Mookie appeared to be right at the start of the 45-foot 1st base running lane when the ball reached Buckner. Buckner appears to be about 15' from 1st base. 20' at most. Buckner wasn't that slow, and he seems to be moving pretty quickly in the video.
    ipitch
    Registered User
    Last edited by ipitch; 09-17-2012, 01:00 PM.

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  • EdTarbusz
    091707 0657

  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    Originally posted by Brooklyn View Post
    No it didn't.

    Buckner gets way too much blame for this. Most casual fans don't remember that the game was already tied when Wilson hit the ground ball, thanks to a Bob Stanley wild pitch that also put Knight in scoring position. I never understood why Schiraldi never had more blame on him for that game for getting into trouble, or Stanley for throwing a wild pitch to allow the tying run to score.

    And of course there are those that believe Wilson would have beaten it out for an infield single even if Buckner had come up with the ball, prolonging the inning for another batter.
    I think even if Buckner came up with the ball Wilson would have easily beaten him to first. The Red Sox pitcher was really let off the hook because I think he would have been the goat if Buckner made the play and the pitcher wasn't there to cover first. I don't think Buckner was the goat of that game. It was Schiraldi and Stanley.

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  • westsidegrounds
    Registered User

  • westsidegrounds
    replied
    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    This is a point I never considered. I just watched the play again and it seems to me it was possible that Wilson could have beaten Buckner to the first base.

    my grammaw could have beaten Billy Buck to the base.

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  • Honus Wagner Rules
    xFIP?! I laugh at you!

  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by Brooklyn View Post
    No it didn't.

    Buckner gets way too much blame for this. Most casual fans don't remember that the game was already tied when Wilson hit the ground ball, thanks to a Bob Stanley wild pitch that also put Knight in scoring position. I never understood why Schiraldi never had more blame on him for that game for getting into trouble, or Stanley for throwing a wild pitch to allow the tying run to score.

    And of course there are those that believe Wilson would have beaten it out for an infield single even if Buckner had come up with the ball, prolonging the inning for another batter.
    This is a point I never considered. I just watched the play again and it seems to me it was possible that Wilson could have beaten Buckner to the first base.

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  • Brooklyn
    Registered User

  • Brooklyn
    replied
    Originally posted by KHenry14 View Post
    ... Buckner's error directly caused the loss of a WS game,...
    No it didn't.

    Buckner gets way too much blame for this. Most casual fans don't remember that the game was already tied when Wilson hit the ground ball, thanks to a Bob Stanley wild pitch that also put Knight in scoring position. I never understood why Schiraldi never had more blame on him for that game for getting into trouble, or Stanley for throwing a wild pitch to allow the tying run to score.

    And of course there are those that believe Wilson would have beaten it out for an infield single even if Buckner had come up with the ball, prolonging the inning for another batter.

    Leave a comment:

  • Honus Wagner Rules
    xFIP?! I laugh at you!

  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by Dude Paskert View Post
    I just checked on Hack Wilson's famous misplays in the '29 WS, he didn't get charged with errors on the fly balls lost in the sun during the A's 10 run inning.
    I also learned that Hack's mother died when he was 7 (parents were never married) and his unusual physique is considered by some to be due to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.
    Also, his lack of impulse control was supposedly another piece of evidence. Funny the first place I ever read about the Fetal Alcohol Syndrome theory was in an amazon.com review of the book, Fouled Away: The Baseball Tragedy of Hack Wilson. Here is the review:

    In 1930, Hack Wilson set the single season record for most Runs Batted In (RBIs), arguably the most important single statistic in baseball. His 191 Runs Batted In still stands today. Through eight decades of baseball, no one has touched it. But Hack Wilson couldn't even approach his 1930 numbers in later years, and four years later, he was washed up, an alcoholic and out of Major League Baseball.

    This biography of Hack Wilson describes a tragedy. As Parker clearly demonstrates, the same demons that drove Wilson to play at the level he did also drove him to self-destruction. This is not a cheerful book. Wilson, while he was capable of greatness, was also tormented. He attacked fans in the stands, opposing pitchers, and was involved in a seemingly endless series of drunken brawls, both during and after Prohibition. And Parker tells this story fairly well. There are notable gaps, especially before and after Wilson's big league career; Wilson came from out of nowhere and died in obscurity. Parker must have struggled with both too much and too little real information.

    But I give the book only three stars for two reasons. First, although Parker dwells at length and many times on Wilson's odd physique, he never connects the dots between Wilson's hard-partying, hard-drinking mother and Wilson's large head, tiny feet, short legs and broad, flat face. Anyone who has worked with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome children will recognize immediately the signs in Wilson. FAS includes life-long poor impulse control. Parker's biography of Wilson reads like a primer on the life of an FAS victim.

    And, second, that realization changes dramatically the story of Hack Wilson's life. He wasn't just another young man with great promise who succumbed to alcoholism. He was a kid who was born with the odds against him, doomed to a crippling syndrome in the womb, who overcame those odds, to do truly great things. It's a story of patience and discipline in someone who struggled much harder than others to have either of those things. The successes Hack Wilson achieved are much greater when understood in context. The records he set beggar the imagination when you understand the handicaps he carried. There is a triumph, real triumph, in this tragedy. I only wish the author had seen it more clearly.
    SOURCE

    I doubt someone like Hack Wilson would be allowed to play baseball today. He would be labeled a "special needs child" at a young age, everyone would assume he would be helpless his entire life, and be taken care of.

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  • Capital City Goofball
    Registered User

  • Capital City Goofball
    replied
    Originally posted by ipitch View Post
    He didn't attempt to throw it. There was a breast pocket in his uniform (top) and it got stuck in there after he stopped the ball with his chest. Supposedly, that put an end to those pockets.
    Honestly, I've heard so many retellings of this story that I am not sure who to believe... One article from the Tribune by Hugh Fullerton, dated March 8, 1906 says the Browns were playing the Cincinnati Red Stockings and "Cliff was in centerfield. The ball took a bad bound and struck Cliff in the breast and in grabbing for it, he shoved it into the pocket of the shirt." Then another article from Baseball Historian Thomas Lonergan says that "Hoy (meaning William Hoy of Washington) hit a line drive into left field. Cliff Carroll, got his hands on the ball, juggled it, and it dropped into his shirt pocket, the umpire calling Hoy out." Finally there is the Bill Dahlen/Chicago Cubs story I posted, which I read off the back of an insert page from the "Sports: Heroes, Feats & Facts" 3-ring binder...
    Capital City Goofball
    Registered User
    Last edited by Capital City Goofball; 09-17-2012, 11:49 AM.

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  • dgarza
    Registered User

  • dgarza
    replied
    Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    the Cub SS in the Bartman game
    They got that one. I was glad that they did.

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  • 9RoyHobbsRF
    The Natural

  • 9RoyHobbsRF
    replied
    some that come to mind

    Jose Lind in Game 7 of the 1992 NCLS
    the Cub SS in the Bartman game

    Leave a comment:

  • EdTarbusz
    091707 0657

  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    Originally posted by Nimrod View Post
    In Snodgrass`defense(no pun intended),he made a spectacular catch of the next batter`s(Harry Hooper) long clout that in Hooper`s opinion would have been a sure triple.Matty walked the next batter which brought Tris Speaker up to the plate.Mathewson got Speaker to hit a lazy pop up near first base that was manned by none other than Fred Merkle.Matty called for the slow footed catcher Chief Meyers to take it,but to no avail.Speaker,given a second life,belted the next pitch for a single to tie the score.Larry Gardner hit a long sacrifice fly to drive in the winning run.If Merkle had just caught the easy pop up.
    Merkle would get used to it. He played in the World Series five times and was never on a team that won it.

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  • Nimrod
    Registered User

  • Nimrod
    replied
    In Snodgrass`defense(no pun intended),he made a spectacular catch of the next batter`s(Harry Hooper) long clout that in Hooper`s opinion would have been a sure triple.Matty walked the next batter which brought Tris Speaker up to the plate.Mathewson got Speaker to hit a lazy pop up near first base that was manned by none other than Fred Merkle.Matty called for the slow footed catcher Chief Meyers to take it,but to no avail.Speaker,given a second life,belted the next pitch for a single to tie the score.Larry Gardner hit a long sacrifice fly to drive in the winning run.If Merkle had just caught the easy pop up.

    Leave a comment:

  • EdTarbusz
    091707 0657

  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    Buckner's is too high, especially considering there are three game seven errors behind it.

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  • ipitch
    Registered User

  • ipitch
    replied
    Originally posted by Capital City Goofball View Post
    EDIT: Instead of what I posted below, I give you this... No championships were on the line but I think it deserves a mention... Way back in 1892, during a game between St. Louis and Chicago, Bill Dahlen, batting for Chicago, hit a ball towards the left-field corner. Cliff Carroll of St. Louis ran to cut off the ball and limit Dahlen to a single. As he grabbed the ball and proceeded to throw it, the ball slipped out of his hand and became caught in his pocket. No matter how hard he attempted to pull the ball out, it seemed to get deeper into his pocket. When he finally got the ball out, he threw it towards home plate but by that time Dahlen had already reached home plate, scoring a run...
    He didn't attempt to throw it. There was a breast pocket in his uniform (top) and it got stuck in there after he stopped the ball with his chest. Supposedly, that put an end to those pockets.

    Leave a comment:

  • Dude Paskert
    The Grand Poobah of Sweat

  • Dude Paskert
    replied
    I just checked on Hack Wilson's famous misplays in the '29 WS, he didn't get charged with errors on the fly balls lost in the sun during the A's 10 run inning.
    I also learned that Hack's mother died when he was 7 (parents were never married) and his unusual physique is considered by some to be due to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

    Leave a comment:

  • Jackaroo Dave
    Registered User

  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Fron what I read what Merkle did was common in his time. On plays like that the runner usually didn't bother to touch second base.
    Was it still common afterward, I wonder.

    Leave a comment:

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