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  • All-Defensive Team

    OK, if you were to make a team based on defensive capability, what would it look like?

    Some possibilities:
    -Mark Belanger
    -Bill Mazeroski
    -Jim Kaat
    -Bob Gibson
    -Roberto Clemente
    -Greg Maddux
    -Ivan Rodriguez
    -Keith Hernandez
    -Brooks Robinson
    -Mike Schmidt
    -Ozzie Smith
    -Andruw Jones
    -Don Mattingly
    Last edited by 1905 Giants; 09-18-2012, 09:46 AM.
    “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

    "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

  • #2
    good list off the top of my head with OF by position

    Bench
    Hernandez
    Mazeroski
    Ozzie Smith
    Brooks Robinson
    Barry Bonds
    Mays
    Kaline
    Shantz, just to be quirky.

    some others including yours are Bill Bergen (partly by assumption and recalled readings), Ivan Rodriguez (much overrated IMO with whispers of pitch calling tailored to fastballs so as to throw runners out), Schalk also had a repiutation but really I am not so comfortable here

    you could give a list of infielders but to me and the data I have looked at and recall each of these men are head and shoulders above their peers. I will give an HM to Bid McPhee an dmention Clete Boyer so I don't seem ignorant

    OF is just a guess great LFers are who really?Yaz, McReynolds ...
    CF certainly Andruw Jones, Ashburn, Speaker are the familiar names
    RF Kaline just because he is described as being technically, fundamentally perfect or something along those lines

    P any of the guys listed would be good as well

    Comment


    • #3
      Disagree with Greg Maddox on this list. I know he won a lot of Gold Gloves but he was terrible at holding runners on which is a big defensive flaw.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
        OK, if you were to make a team based on defensive capability, what would it look like?

        Some possibilities:
        -Mark Belanger
        -Bill Mazeroski
        -Jim Kaat
        -Bob Gibson
        -Roberto Clemente
        -Greg Maddux
        -Ivan Rodriguez
        -Keith Hernandez
        -Brooks Robinson
        -Mike Schmidt
        -Ozzie Smith
        -Andruw Jones
        -Don Mattingly
        I don't think Mattingly was much better than average. Like Sandberg, and Alomar at second, he was a solid fielder who did things that Gold Glove voters like. Helton, Grace, Pujols, and Keith Hernandez are all well beyond him.

        Comment


        • #5
          So just as a relevant question, does anyone have any recollection of how good Belanger was? I'm too young to know but for some reason he sticks in my memory from a "Baseball Dynasties" (an excellent book) side bar on him.
          “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

          "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

          Comment


          • #6
            P: Kaat
            C: Bench
            1B: Keith Hernandez
            2B: Grich
            3B: Brooks Robinson
            SS: Ozzie Smith
            LF: Barry Bonds
            CF: Andruw Jones
            RF: Suzuki

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
              So just as a relevant question, does anyone have any recollection of how good Belanger was? I'm too young to know but for some reason he sticks in my memory from a "Baseball Dynasties" (an excellent book) side bar on him.
              He was the best before Ozzie. Quick and dirty: Among other post-war shortstops, up until his retirement, the highest number of WAR defensive runs for a shortstop was Aparicio's 147, followed by MacMillan's 92. Belanger had 240.

              He was the consensus standard by which shortstops were judged in an era that included Concepcion and Campaneris, among other excellent glove men who couldn't hold a job because of their bats. He managed to play for 18 years with a .228 batting average and a .280 on base percentage.
              Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
                So just as a relevant question, does anyone have any recollection of how good Belanger was? I'm too young to know but for some reason he sticks in my memory from a "Baseball Dynasties" (an excellent book) side bar on him.
                I saw him play as a kid and he was one of the best defensive shortstops ever and was fortunate to play for Earl Weaver who put an emphasis on defense. Unfortunately he was pretty bad at the plate in fact Earl would pencil in a left handed hitting outfielder at the top of the line up in road games and substitute the outfielder for Belanger after he had an at bat. Belanger hated that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Toss another name out there: Clete Boyer
                  “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

                  "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1B JT Snow
                    2B Frank White
                    SS Marty Marion
                    3B Brooks Robinson
                    LF Yaz
                    CF Richie Ashburn
                    RF Ichiro
                    C Pudge Rodriquez
                    P Bobby Shantz
                    This week's Giant

                    #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Throw another name out there: Amos Otis.
                      “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

                      "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Of players I've seen:

                        C Johnny Bench, Roy Campanella (partly on reputation, he was late in his career when I saw him)
                        1B Keith Hernandez, Vic Power
                        2B Bill Mazeroski, Frank White
                        SS Mark Belanger, Ozzie Smith, Roy McMillan
                        3B Clete Boyer, Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt
                        LF Barry Bonds, Carl Yastrzemski
                        CF Willie Mays, Gary Maddox, Andruw Jones
                        RF Al Kaline, Suzuki, Clemente
                        P Bobby Shantz, Jim Kaat

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I never saw Hernandez play. Wish I did. Why is he so universally regarded as #1 (statistics and Gold Gloves aside)? Anyone know where I can find some of his defensive footage?

                          My lifetime is too short to compile my list based on experience. I'm also not aware of many players who excelled in defense yet played for a brief period. I'll throw in some other names that haven't been mentioned:

                          -Yadier Molina (I have seen him and his control of the field is masterful)
                          -Rabbit Maranville (baseball's Ozzie Smith before Ozzie Smith)
                          -Pie Traynor
                          -Mike Matheny
                          -Bid McPhee
                          -Bob Boone
                          -Dwight Evans
                          -Torii Hunter
                          -Vlad Guerrero (ok, maybe not fielding, but THAT ARM...)
                          -Paul Blair(?)
                          -Ken Griffey Jr.
                          -Adrian Gonzalez (also seen him)
                          -Mark Buehrle(?)
                          -Omar Vizquel
                          -Jim Edmonds
                          -Scott Rolen
                          -Tris Speaker
                          -Eric Chavez (best since Schmidt)
                          -Joe Tinker
                          -Johnny Evers

                          If I had to assemble the all-defensive team using the usual renowned guys (again I'm not familiar with brief defensive stints):

                          C- I. Rodrgiuez (I completely disagree with PVNick)
                          1B- K. Hernandez
                          2B- Mazeroski
                          3B- Robinson, Schmidt, or Traynor
                          SS- O. Smith or Maranville
                          LF- Yaz
                          CF- Mays, Griffey, Hunter, Speaker, or Maddox
                          RF- Suzuki or Clemente
                          "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Of those I've actually seen in my lifetime:

                            C: Ivan Rodriguez
                            1B: Keith Hernandez
                            2B: Bobby Grich
                            3B: Brooks Robinson
                            SS: Mark Belanger
                            LF: Rickey Henderson
                            CF: Andruw Jones
                            RF: Roberto Clemente

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              2B: Bobby Grich
                              3B: Brooks Robinson
                              SS: Mark Belanger

                              ...and these 3 played togetherfor 5 years!

                              Comment

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