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  • Overrated/Underrated Players

    I did a thread like this a few years ago, and I figured why not see what people think now?

    The question is quite simple: What players do you think are overrated and underrated both in history and contemporary settings?

    For Me:

    Underrated:
    -Tim Raines
    -Mike Schmidt (OK he hit for a low average get over it)
    -Mickey Mantle (He could do everything, too bad for the injuries. I would have loved to see what he could have accomplished if he was healthy throughout his career.)

    Overrated:
    -Nolan Ryan (Strikeout record overshadows everything else. Not that he was a bad player at all.)
    -Babe Ruth (OK, he was a great player but you know there have been other great players in history, he's not the end all.)
    Last edited by 1905 Giants; 09-18-2012, 06:35 PM.
    “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

    "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

  • #2
    Walter Johnson and Babe Ruth. They're still definitely upper-echelon, as in, two of the twenty greatest players to play for sure, but kind of had some prolonged good beats given the respective eras they played in. At this stage in my understanding of the game, I wouldn't consider them the respective greatest pitcher and greatest position player, that I wouldn't.

    IMO, Mickey Mantle is generally aptly rated, near the bottom half of the top ten-mid teens in nearly everyone's all-time list. There is certainly a case for him being the player with the most God-given talent in the history of MLB, but there's a reason why Casey Stengel picked Joe Dimaggio over him when asked who the greatest centerfielder he ever managed was. Nolan Ryan is also generally aptly rated from what I've seen.
    "Baseball is really fun"~ Joe Dimaggio
    "I really like baseball"~ Babe Ruth
    "Baseball is my favorite sport"~ Pete Rose

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
      For Me:

      Underrated:-Mike Schmidt (OK he hit for a low average get over it)
      Really, Schmidt is underrated? Isn't he universally acknowledged as the greatest third baseman in history?


      Overrated:
      -Nolan Ryan (Strikeout record overshadows everything else. Not that he was a bad player at all.)
      Agree with this one. He also walked the most batters in history. Though I must admit the seven no-hitters are impressive.

      -Babe Ruth (OK, he was a great player but you know there have been other great players in history, he's not the end all.)
      Actually, he is the end all. When he started hitting home runs in 1920, he was hitting more than any other entire team in MLB.

      For me, I'd say Roy Campanella, Gil Hodges, Keith Hernandez and Billy Pierce are underrated.
      They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

      Comment


      • #4
        Statistically, Ruth isn't overrated. His statistics are ridiculously insane. Now whether or not that actually makes him the best player of any era is an entirely different debate, though I agree that some people tend to overrate him when they put him on an "untouchable" level beyond any other player. Still, my choice for overrated is Pete Rose.

        As for underrated, probably Dick Allen and Gary Sheffield.

        Comment


        • #5
          From the standpoint of the HoF voting (and other polls), Ryan was easily the most overrated. Grove, by that measure, was the most underrated.

          From today's standpoint as I imagine 'casual fans' perspective, Sosa is the most overrated, while Blyleven is the most underrated.
          "It's better to look good, than be good."

          Comment


          • #6
            Nolan Ryan is overrated. Jeff Bagwell is way underrated. I have him just edging out Jimmie Foxx in the all-time ratings. Jim Thome is underrated as well. Many of the modern players are underrated in my book.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pheasant View Post
              Jeff Bagwell is way underrated. I have him just edging out Jimmie Foxx in the all-time ratings.
              Wow, this one's interesting.
              “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

              "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

              Comment


              • #8
                All right, I’m a homer, but here goes

                UNDERRRATED

                Matt Cain from 2009 to present 55-35 2.97 ERA+ 127 whip 1.101 plus great postseason record, soon to be expanded on

                Matt Williams all star 5x, Gold Glove 4X, MVP finishes 2,3,6,6 yeah he didn’t walk and his OPS+ isn’t great, but he got a lot of XBH, TBs, and had a great glove

                Jeff Kent His HOF status should be a no brainer MVP finishes 1,6,8,9 All star 5X , 100 RBI 8X (for a 2B) 1518 RBI .290/.356/.500

                Overrated

                all closers

                Whitey Ford certainly a HOFer, but not a workhorse. I think his hype overshadows his career

                Don Sutton, Phil Niekro, and Gaylord Perry They are basically the same guy. The epitome of a compiler
                This week's Giant

                #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think Bob Feller is underrated by the Baseball-Fever community. Without missing years for WW2, he'd have well over 300 wins and 3,000 k's. He's a top-10 pitcher, IMO.


                  I agree that Nolan Ryan is overrated, though he had some remarkable accomplishments in his career.
                  Jack Morris is definitely overrated. The fact that he's going to make the Hall Of Fame is laughable.
                  I agree Tim Raines is underrated. The fact that he's NOT yet in the Hall Of Fame is laughable.

                  I think Dale Murphy is underrated too. He flamed out early, but he was a great, great player during his prime. I think he would've made the HOF with 2 more home runs.

                  And last but certainly not least, Fred McGriff. It is mind-boggling to me that he's not in the Hall. 493 home runs. 1550 RBI, etc... 7 more home runs and he's in on the first ballot. Doesn't make any sense to me...
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Overrated: Josh Hamilton. A good player with a great story does not equal a great player.

                    Underrated: Lou Whitaker. If he would have played in the 1880's rather than the 1980's he'd have a better chance of making the Hall of Fame. If he had played in the Negro leagues he would be in the Hall of Fame. If he had played in the 1920's or 1930's he would have been in the Hall of Fame before the real Lou Whitaker was born.

                    The only other eligible position players with a higher career WAR who aren't in the Hall of Fame are Jeff Bagwell (are there PED issues?) and a certain guy who has his own store in Cooperstown.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
                      All right, I’m a homer, but here goes

                      UNDERRRATED

                      Matt Cain from 2009 to present 55-35 2.97 ERA+ 127 whip 1.101 plus great postseason record, soon to be expanded on

                      Matt Williams all star 5x, Gold Glove 4X, MVP finishes 2,3,6,6 yeah he didn’t walk and his OPS+ isn’t great, but he got a lot of XBH, TBs, and had a great glove

                      Jeff Kent His HOF status should be a no brainer MVP finishes 1,6,8,9 All star 5X , 100 RBI 8X (for a 2B) 1518 RBI .290/.356/.500

                      Overrated

                      all closers

                      Whitey Ford certainly a HOFer, but not a workhorse. I think his hype overshadows his career

                      Don Sutton, Phil Niekro, and Gaylord Perry They are basically the same guy. The epitome of a compiler
                      well a couple of counter points and additions

                      Bert Blyleven was the epitome of a compiler, Gaylord Perry was a 2 time Cy Young Winner and had many outstanding seasons

                      Whitey Ford was used in an odd way by Stengel, he would alter his pitching days so he faced the better teams more than the weaker teams and kept him from getting 20 wins many years with this odd usage, he would finish 19-6, 18-7, 18-6 etc. When Ralph Houk took over in 1961 he put him in a normal 4 man rotation and suddeny he went 25-4 and 24-7
                      1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                      2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                      3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                        Bert Blyleven was the epitome of a compiler, Gaylord Perry was a 2 time Cy Young Winner and had many outstanding seasons
                        Blyleven "compiled" 60 complete-game shutouts, seven more than Perry in the same number of years. He deserves to be in the Hall, and should have been a lot sooner.

                        Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                        .Jack Morris is definitely overrated. The fact that he's going to make the Hall Of Fame is laughable...
                        It isn't a "fact" until it happens. Hopefully it won't.
                        They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post

                          It isn't a "fact" until it happens. Hopefully it won't.
                          From what I've heard it's extremely likely Morris will be elected in the next year or two.
                          My top 10 players:

                          1. Babe Ruth
                          2. Barry Bonds
                          3. Ty Cobb
                          4. Ted Williams
                          5. Willie Mays
                          6. Alex Rodriguez
                          7. Hank Aaron
                          8. Honus Wagner
                          9. Lou Gehrig
                          10. Mickey Mantle

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
                            Blyleven "compiled" 60 complete-game shutouts, seven more than Perry in the same number of years. He deserves to be in the Hall, and should have been a lot sooner.



                            It isn't a "fact" until it happens. Hopefully it won't.
                            Bert Blyleven made 3 all star teams in 22 years

                            Mark Langston made 4 AS games in 16 years

                            fernando Valenzuela made 6 ASG in 17 years

                            Gaylord won 18 or more games 8 times including 5 20 win seasons, Blyleven won 18 or more games twice with 1 20 game season

                            blyleven was the epitome of a compiler
                            Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 09-20-2012, 12:42 PM.
                            1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                            2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                            3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                              Bert Blyleven made 3 all star teams in 22 years

                              Mark Langston made 4 AS games in 16 years

                              fernando Valenzuela made 6 ASG in 17 years

                              Gaylord won 18 or more games 8 times including 5 20 win seasons, Blyleven won 18 or more games twice with 1 20 game season

                              blyleven was the epitome of a compiler
                              I think Blyleven would have made a few more all-star games pitching for better teams. Your point is not a bad one, but I think it's a bit unfair to Blyleven to blame him for mediocre W/L records.
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

                              Comment

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