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Who is neither underrated nor overrated?

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  • #1

    Who is neither underrated nor overrated?

    there are a couple of under/ooverrated threads going on, and that poked my contrarian reflex. Of course it's easy to find a significant group of people who underrate or overrate almost any notable player, because it's easy to match up conflicting evaluation principles with different groups.

    Are there any players that you feel most everyone has got just about right? (There's always someone who will vote for Tovar over Yaz, but that can't be helped.)

    No rules, but obviously baseball has made up its collective mind on the multitude of inadequate players, so, say, Pete Rose Jr might fit the profile, but not very interestingly.

    I'd say that despite the Kaline-Clemente dispute, Kaline is pegged pretty accurately (while in contrast, Clemente's evaluations are much more varied).
    Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce
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  • #2
    Most everyone.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
      Most everyone.
      Really? You've been soliciting evaluations for a long time, so your sense of the situation I have to respect.

      Maybe almost everyone is uncontroversial because no one really cares whether Bobby Richardson was better than Horace Clarke, but it seems to me that "notable" almost always goes with "controversial," at the least because there are traditional and revisionist schools of evaluation. I'd say myself, for example, that Mantle and DiMaggio were both pretty well settled, but we had literally thousands of posts, some quite ferocious, about who was better.

      Also, you would know much more about this than I, but haven't a good many of your threads (which I enjoy and learn from a great deal) generated some controversy along those lines?
      Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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      • #4
        I'm sure what you want, but I feel that only the no brainers are neither overrated or underrated.

        So my list is

        Babe Ruth
        Willie Mays
        Walter Johnson
        Tom Seaver
        Ty Cobb
        Greg Maddux
        Randy Johnson

        that's about it, most other players have a difference of opinion about their perspective greatness
        This week's Giant

        #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
          I'm sure what you want, but I feel that only the no brainers are neither overrated or underrated.

          So my list is

          Babe Ruth
          Willie Mays
          Walter Johnson
          Tom Seaver
          Ty Cobb
          Greg Maddux
          Randy Johnson

          that's about it, most other players have a difference of opinion about their perspective greatness
          I think Tom Seaver is overrated, especially on this board.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
            I think Tom Seaver is overrated, especially on this board.
            Maybe your only memory of him is wearing those dreadful White Sox uniforms in the mid 80's.

            From 1967-78, his first 12 years, he has has a whip of 1.067, an era+ of 140 , 9 straight 200k seasons (with 5 SO titles), and a .651 winning pct , mostly with the anemic Mets. Seaver was a stud.
            This week's Giant

            #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
              Maybe your only memory of him is wearing those dreadful White Sox uniforms in the mid 80's.

              From 1967-78, his first 12 years, he has has a whip of 1.067, an era+ of 140 , 9 straight 200k seasons (with 5 SO titles), and a .651 winning pct , mostly with the anemic Mets. Seaver was a stud.
              No question he was a stud; I am not disputing that. I personally think many people rank him too high. His ERA+ is #48th alltime. Many people rank him in the top 10 alltime or even higher; I personally don't see it.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
                No question he was a stud; I am not disputing that. I personally think many people rank him too high. His ERA+ is #48th alltime. Many people rank him in the top 10 alltime or even higher; I personally don't see it.
                True, yet among pitcher's who've thrown as many innings as Seaver, he's ranked 8th (and 6th since 1900) in ERA+.
                Last edited by GiambiJuice; 09-24-2012, 01:13 PM.
                My top 10 players:

                1. Babe Ruth
                2. Barry Bonds
                3. Ty Cobb
                4. Ted Williams
                5. Willie Mays
                6. Alex Rodriguez
                7. Hank Aaron
                8. Honus Wagner
                9. Lou Gehrig
                10. Mickey Mantle

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                • #9
                  Hmm, might be tougher than it looks. How about Musial? Doesn't most everyone have him at the top of the second tier? That is, no one is going to say he's the best ever, but he's about the best that no one would say that about.

                  Huh?
                  Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                    Hmm, might be tougher than it looks. How about Musial? Doesn't most everyone have him at the top of the second tier? That is, no one is going to say he's the best ever, but he's about the best that no one would say that about.

                    Huh?
                    I would take Musial over Williams in a heartbeat
                    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                    2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                    3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                      I would take Musial over Williams in a heartbeat
                      That's not exactly a huge stretch. I'm sure others would agree with you.
                      My top 10 players:

                      1. Babe Ruth
                      2. Barry Bonds
                      3. Ty Cobb
                      4. Ted Williams
                      5. Willie Mays
                      6. Alex Rodriguez
                      7. Hank Aaron
                      8. Honus Wagner
                      9. Lou Gehrig
                      10. Mickey Mantle

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                        Hmm, might be tougher than it looks. How about Musial? Doesn't most everyone have him at the top of the second tier? That is, no one is going to say he's the best ever, but he's about the best that no one would say that about.

                        Huh?
                        Wow. 2nd tier? Never heard anybody rank him so low. Musial's a Top 10 player.

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                        • #13
                          I hear very few arguments regarding Frank Robinson.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                            Wow. 2nd tier? Never heard anybody rank him so low. Musial's a Top 10 player.
                            By "second tier" I meant "not a candidate for number one, but among the best after that." I'm sorry my terse paraphrase was unclear.
                            Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Musial was great but I think people overrate him a little bit when they put him in the Mays Mantle A-rod Henderson etc category

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