Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Who's Better, Who's Best in Baseball (2005) Top 75 Players

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Who's Better, Who's Best in Baseball (2005) Top 75 Players

    Here's Elliot Kalb's Top 75 Players as of 2005 (and I do highly recommend this book).

    1) Barry Bonds
    2) Babe Ruth
    3) Willie Mays
    4) Hank Aaron
    5) Walter Johnson
    6) Ty Cobb
    7) Ted Williams
    8) Honus Wagner
    9) Alex Rodriguez
    10) Josh Gibson
    11) Lou Gehrig
    12) Mickey Mantle
    13) Christy Mathewson
    14) Lefty Grove
    15) Satchel Paige
    16) Oscar Charleston
    17) Mike Schmidt
    18) Rogers Hornsby
    19) Tris Speaker
    20) Grover Alexander
    21) Joe Dimaggio
    22) Stan Musial
    23) George Brett
    24) Jimmie Foxx
    25) Sandy Koufax
    26) Roger Clemens
    27) Joe Morgan
    28) Nap Lajoie
    29) Pedro Martinez
    30) Rickey Henderson
    31) Eddie Collins
    32) Greg Maddux
    33) Bob Feller
    34) Johnny Bench
    35) Warren Spahn
    36) Randy Johnson
    37) Frank Robinson
    38) Yogi Berra
    39) Bob Gibson
    40) Shoeless Joe Jackson
    41) Pete Rose
    42) Cy Young
    43) Tom Seaver
    44) Cal Ripken Jr.
    45) Tony Gwynn
    46) Eddie Mathews
    47) Steve Carlton
    48) Mel Ott
    49) Ken Griffey Jr.
    50) Carl Hubbell
    51) Roy Campanella
    52) Reggie Jackson
    53) Sammy Sosa
    54) Mike Piazza
    55) Paul Waner
    56) Carl Yastrzemski
    57) Roberto Clemente
    58) Jackie Robinson
    59) Harmon Killebrew
    60) Johnny Mize
    61) Mark McGwire
    62) Mariano Rivera
    63) Derek Jeter
    64) Al Simmons
    65) Ivan Rodriguez
    66) Juan Marichal
    67) Manny Ramirez
    68) Martin Dihigo
    69) Dave Winfield
    70) Charlie Gehringer
    71) Duke Snider
    72) Whitey Ford
    73) Buck Leonard
    74) Eddie Murray
    75) Carlton Fisk

    So, what do you think?
    “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

    "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

  • #2
    Got a teeny little problem with no. 1.
    They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

    Comment


    • #3
      He likes to stir the pot. He did one with basketball and named Shaq #1.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
        Got a teeny little problem with no. 1.
        Looks like he wrote this book back in 2005, when there was far less information out there about steroid use in baseball. It's possible he's changed his opinion now, and may rank players such as Bonds, Arod, Clemens, etc, lower. Then again, maybe he doesn't care about steroids.

        Comment


        • #5
          Let him be. He's got Mantle #12 and Dimaggio #21, so he's fine. (Are we still with that?)
          "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
          George Brett

          Comment


          • #6
            Big ne for me is Josh Gibson at #10. Little high, unless he actually did all the legendary stuff people say.
            “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

            "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

            Comment


            • #7
              In 2004 when Barry hit his 700th HR, many people I was with at a huge Vegas sports bar were booing the TV. Everybody was convinced that he was on steroids. The talk of Ruth came up huge. But this guy obviously didn't factor in steroids in 2005, so I can see why he put Barry #1. I don't necessarily agree with it. But it's not far off at all. The others in the top are pretty close. I have A-rod up there in the top 10 as well. Josh Gibson's rating is pushing it, but who knows there. I would say that most of his position players are pretty close.

              However, the pitching choices stick out like a sore thumb.

              He has Walter Johnson 4th, yet Cy Young 42nd. He has Koufax ahead of Clemens, Pedro, Maddux, Bob Gibson, and Bob Feller. Koufax, a 165 game winner in an era of the high strike zone and high mound beats the very best from the steroid era with the low mound and tiny strike zone. Pedro and Clemens also had to deal with the DH.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm sure that it's a good read. Obviously, IMO DiMaggio is about 10 spots too low. I have a hard time rtanking the Negro League players, because so much of it is Paul Bunyan stuff. Tony Gwynn is ranked way too high. It's not a terrible list.
                This week's Giant

                #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
                  Big ne for me is Josh Gibson at #10. Little high, unless he actually did all the legendary stuff people say.
                  He has Gibson that high but he leaves off the great Sadaharu Oh completely off his list?
                  Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have the book - I would recommend reading it to get his REASONING rather than just off the cuff remarks based on a list
                    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                    2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                    3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pheasant View Post
                      In 2004 when Barry hit his 700th HR, many people I was with at a huge Vegas sports bar were booing the TV. Everybody was convinced that he was on steroids. The talk of Ruth came up huge. But this guy obviously didn't factor in steroids in 2005, so I can see why he put Barry #1. I don't necessarily agree with it. But it's not far off at all.

                      .
                      As long as he is consistent re: PEDS. Don't put A-Rod in the top 15, but kick Bonds off the list, for example.

                      Anyway, Sosa WAY too high, even with full PED credit. Same with McGwire. Whitey Ford way too high too. Musial and Rickey too low. Dave Winfield WAY too high.
                      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would love to see how he justifies putting A-rod as high as number 9. I realize his steroid use wasn't known at that time, but he could not have had more than 9 full seasons in when the book was being written.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
                          Big ne for me is Josh Gibson at #10. Little high, unless he actually did all the legendary stuff people say.
                          Agree with that. I tend to squeek him into my top 25 (MLB plus list) but he may have had trouble with breaking pitches and if we see him as a catcher, how long could he have really played there? The MLB record is around 2200 games. Was he a better hitter than Frank Robinson who is at #37 (way too low)? And no way he lasts that long at catcher. I figured he's be a lot like a Kiner, Stargell, Reggie Jackson, Piazza type hitter playing solid catcher. As BEST a Frank Robinson/Jimmy Foxx type hitter but cut back by the demands of catching to maybe 2200 games, and a fairly short prime.

                          And I can't possibly put him above Charleston.

                          Frank Robinson at #37? Mel Ott at 48?

                          Its an interesting list though that seems to combine saber type value (Morgan) with historical standing.

                          I had Bonds around 1 or 2 in 2005, but even had he not used, I would drop him to #3 today because I think he was a little overrated on defense.

                          Kaline not in the top 25?
                          Love Brett, but with pitchers he's more like 35.
                          And Yaz at 56?

                          Still, I have no problem weighing history, and talent and championship performance strongly in balance with regular season saber-type value. If it was a saber list, it wouldn't make a book, just list 75 players with their score.
                          Last edited by brett; 09-27-2012, 09:13 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            --I don't think his player rating are really unreasonable. Sure you can quibble over a few guys, but ignoring steroids and doing some LQ adjusting it is a pretty fair list. He really drops the ball on pitchers though.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't have a problem with Bonds at #1, but Stan Musial at #22 is just hilariously low.
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X