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  • Greatest non-major leaguers ever

    Not sure if this is the proper forum but I'll start it here. Who do you think are the greatest non-major players off all time? You can select players who had very short major league careers but who's legacy is mostly what they did away from the NL and AL. You can select Negro Leaguers, minor leaguers, NPB players, KBO players, Cuban League players, Mexican League players, college players, etc. This should be interesting.
    Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 12-15-2014, 04:20 PM.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    Here are some of my choices that mostly made their fame away from MLB.

    Josh Gibson
    Pop Lloyd
    Saduharu Oh
    Satchell Page

    I think Satchell gets the nod, but the other 3 are close behind. Oh takes a hit for league quality. But some of the projections I've seen for Oh is .290 and 520 HRs in MLB during Aaron's time. That's still not too shabby and sounds about right, given the gap between the two leagues. I think Gibson would probably would probably have put up similar numbers to Oh. And Pop Lloyd was more of a Honus Wagner type of player and also should be in the discussion

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    • #3
      Paige/Charleston
      Lloyd/Oh/Gibson

      Paige is a top 10 pitcher. Charleston is a top 10 player. Llyod and Gibson around 25-30 for position players, though I might put Gibson higher on a given day.

      Just starting to appreciate Oh.

      Comment


      • #4
        Bud Fowler, Frank Grant, Sol White, Clarence Williams, Grant Home Run Johnson, Bill Selden, Andrew Jackson, Art Thomas, and John Nelson.

        I have a list somewhere of players who had more than 3,000 hits in their minor league careers.
        "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
        "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

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        • #5
          Sadaharu Oh, he was a better hitter than Ichiro by a significant margin and Ichiro didn't do too bad in the Majors.
          Last edited by Joltin' Joe; 09-28-2012, 04:44 PM.

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          • #6
            I would like to mention Deacon Jones.



            Jones was a first baseman in the Chicago White Sox system. In 1962, he hit 26 home runs and had 101 RBI. In 1963, playing for AAA Indianapolis, he hit 19 home runs with 73 RBI, batting .343/.428/.580/1.008. He hit .319/.375/.528/.903 in the minors and played sporadically from 1962 to 1966. I personally think he should have been a good fit for the early expansion Mets.

            Baseball Reference:
            http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...onesde02.shtml

            Wikipedia:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacon_Jones_(infielder)
            The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

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            • #7
              Another one is Buzz Arlett.

              http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...83-Buzz-Arlett
              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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              • #8
                Jigger Stats, Ox Eckhart, Ike Boone
                Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Blue387 View Post
                  I would like to mention Deacon Jones.



                  Jones was a first baseman in the Chicago White Sox system. In 1962, he hit 26 home runs and had 101 RBI. In 1963, playing for AAA Indianapolis, he hit 19 home runs with 73 RBI, batting .343/.428/.580/1.008. He hit .319/.375/.528/.903 in the minors and played sporadically from 1962 to 1966. I personally think he should have been a good fit for the early expansion Mets.

                  Baseball Reference:
                  http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...onesde02.shtml

                  Wikipedia:
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacon_Jones_(infielder)
                  I wonder if this is the same Deacon Jones mentioned in the Koufax autobiography - he was sent somewhere with Koufax by a scout trying to sign both (possibly Pittsburgh)

                  looks right - about th same age and both from NY
                  1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                  2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                  3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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                  • #10
                    Along with Charleston, Gibson, Paige, and Oh, I believe Andrew "Rube" Foster, Martin Dihigo, & Eiji Sawamura deserve mention...

                    Some others:

                    Ben Taylor
                    Shigeo Nagashima
                    Hiromitsu Ochiai
                    Alejandro Oms
                    Oliver "The Ghost" Marcelle
                    Frank Shellenback
                    Smead Jolley
                    Isao Harimoto
                    Jigger Statz
                    Victor Starffin
                    George Washington Stovey
                    Hector Espino

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                    • #11
                      Billy Kay
                      Perry Werden
                      George Whiteman (3,388 hits)
                      Johnny Gill (3,141 hits)
                      Spencer Harris (3,617 hits)
                      Fred Henry (3,384 hits)
                      Ray O'Brien (3,152 hits)
                      Buster Chatham (3,076 hits)
                      Stanley Keyes (1,051 EBH's)
                      Nick Cullop (420 HR's)
                      Willie Mains

                      Stats are in the minor leagues.
                      "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                      "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

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                      • #12
                        Gibson.jpg
                        -------------------------------

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                        • #13
                          Randy Bass.

                          EDIT: Here are the Minor League and Japanese League stats.

                          Minors 1972-1980, 1982 (ages 18-28)

                          .294/.425/.540, 1141 G, 4818 PA, 3859 AB, 753 R, 1135 H, 199 2B, 18 3B, 238 HR, 883 RBI, 875 BB, 776 K, 2084 TB

                          Japanese 1983-1988 (ages 29-34), played for Hanshin Tigers

                          .337/.418/.660, 614 G, 2550 PA, 2208 AB, 387 R, 743 H, 100 2B, 4 3B, 202 HR, 486 RBI, 299 BB, 337 K, 1457 TB

                          That's 440 home runs and just shy of 1400 RBI between the minors and Japan, not counting the handful he hit in the majors. Big Randy also had 54 home runs in 126 games in Japan in 1985, and followed that up with 47 the next year also in 126 games. Between the minors and Japan, Bass had 7 seasons with 30+ HR. If I get more time today or tomorrow I will post his best season stats. He sure tore up some leagues in his day!
                          Last edited by Herr28; 12-15-2014, 04:38 PM.
                          "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                          • #14
                            Jim Creighton

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pheasant View Post
                              Here are some of my choices that mostly made their fame away from MLB.

                              Josh Gibson
                              Pop Lloyd
                              Saduharu Oh
                              Satchell Page

                              I think Satchell gets the nod, but the other 3 are close behind. Oh takes a hit for league quality. But some of the projections I've seen for Oh is .290 and 520 HRs in MLB during Aaron's time. That's still not too shabby and sounds about right, given the gap between the two leagues. I think Gibson would probably would probably have put up similar numbers to Oh. And Pop Lloyd was more of a Honus Wagner type of player and also should be in the discussion
                              Satchel Paige WAS a Major Leaguer.
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

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