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  • Pete Rose/Reggie Jackson

    Who would you prefer to have on your team for their entire career? Both had some excess baggage, but if you are the GM, who would you choose to be on your team for their entire careers, all things considered?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Source: Left: The Baseball Chronicles, by Larry Burke, 1995, pp. 156.
    Source: Right: Baseball Future Hall of Famers (Magazine), Issue #4, Superstars of the '90's, Winter, 1989, pp. 19.

    ---------Pete Rose-------------------------------------------------------Pete Rose, Reds' OF, 1986---------BB Reference

    108
    I'd rather have Pete Rose on my team for his entire career.
    64.81%
    70
    I'd rather have Reggie Jackson on my team for his entire career.
    35.19%
    38
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 06-21-2009, 08:57 AM.

  • #2
    I think my team would be more successful with a Charlie Hustle than a Mr. October.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 12-28-2006, 10:38 PM.
    2016 World Series Champions

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    • #3
      Here's my take on Reggie/Pete.

      I rank Reggie a good player, Pete as very good.

      I'd rank Pete somewhere between 50-100 on my all time position players list. So he is 2nd Tier Hall of Fame for me.

      1-50 is 1st Tier, 51-100 2nd Tier, 101-150 3rd Tier.

      I'd rank Reggie Jackson as a good player, 101-150, in my all time list of position players. 3rd Tier for me

      Bill James ranks them thusly. Pete is 28th among position players, Reggie is 43rd. Bill ranks both of them as 1st Tier. Too high for my taste.

      Bill James has Pete just below McGwire, J. Robinson, and above Mathews, Biggio. Bill has Reggie just below Campanella, Gwynn, Yount, and just above Sandberg, Gehringer, Boggs. Some of Bill's groupings are beyond fathoming.

      -----Reggie Jackson, Oakland As', RF, August 10, 1969 -----BB Reference---Reggie Jackson Thread


      -----------------1969-71-----------------------Yankees' RF, 1977-81-------------------------------------------------1969-71

      Last edited by Bill Burgess; 06-21-2009, 08:51 AM.

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      • #4
        Rose/R. Jackson:

        Just throwing out some of the routine, obligatory, cursory numbers in a debate.

        -------Bl ink--Gry ink--WinShr--TPR----Rel.BA------Rel.onbase----Rel.SLG
        PR--------64-----239------547----27.8----1.14----------1.13--------1.04
        RJ--------35-----175------444----42.3----1.02----------1.10--------1.28


        ------------home BA-----home Onbase----home SLG
        PR-------------.310----------.387--------------.427
        RJ-------------.255----------.352--------------.481


        -----------away BA-----away Onbase-----away SLG
        PR----------.296------------.368-------------.393
        RJ----------.268------------.364-------------.499
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Bill Burgess
        Last edited by Bill Burgess; 12-23-2005, 08:47 PM.

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        • #5
          Bill, what is TPR?
          2016 World Series Champions

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          • #6
            Hank,

            TPR is a stat created by Total Baseball, and it refers to Total Player Rating.
            Their furthest most column on the right side. Supposedly, their most comprehensive stat.

            Bill

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            • #7
              Well if I had Rose, I wouldn't need a manager.
              Unlike most other team sports, in which teams usually have an equivalent number of players on the field at any given time, in baseball the hitting team is at a numerical disadvantage, with a maximum of 5 players and 2 base coaches on the field at any time, compared to the fielding team's 9 players. For this reason, leaving the dugout to join a fight is generally considered acceptable in that it results in numerical equivalence on the field, and a fairer fight.

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              • #8
                Rose or Jackson is pretty much a tossup. They are both top 50. I'll take Rose for his defensive versatility.
                Last edited by mac195; 04-03-2005, 07:49 PM.
                "The numbers are what brought me here; as it appears they brought you."
                - Danielle Rousseau

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mac195
                  Rose or Jackson is pretty much a tossup. They are both top 50. I'll take Rose for his defensive versatility.
                  Both might be top 50- but probably more accurately both are #50-100 type players.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nascarfn5
                    Well if I had Rose, I wouldn't need a manager.
                    If you had Pete as your manager you'd need a new manager.

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                    • #11
                      While the Reggie debate as a great player was beaten to death, this one is worth pursuing.

                      Rose would be an easy choice for my alltime team, because 1) he was possibly the most versatile defensive player of all time (allstar game appearances at 2B, 3B, 1B and the outfield!), 2) his offensive skills were consistent and not prone to slumps or offyears, 3) his personality was more team-oriented than Reggie's.

                      The last one makes me think about it, but its true. Pete was hardly a well rounded personality, as we all know. But he never claimed to be the straw which stirred the drink. Reggie's ego can be cancerous in too many clubhouses, and he set just such an example.

                      In other words, no one has followed Pete's example and had it backfire, but we've had countless players follow Reggie's example and had it blow up on the part of the team.

                      All things considered, I want Reggie on my team ONLY if we make the playoffs. I might want Pete on my team whether we make the playoffs or not, because he played a large role in the Phils' only World Series victory of the past 70 some years (1980) only one year after joining the team.
                      Catfish Hunter, RIP. Mark Fidrych, RIP. Skip Caray, RIP. Tony Gwynn, #19, RIP

                      A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill. (Please take note that I've recently become aware of how this quote applies to a certain US president. This is a coincidence, and the quote was first added to this signature too far back to remember when).

                      Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test first and the lesson later. -- Dan Quisenberry.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by abolishthedh
                        his personality was more team-oriented than Reggie's.

                        The last one makes me think about it, but its true. Pete was hardly a well rounded personality, as we all know. But he never claimed to be the straw which stirred the drink. Reggie's ego can be cancerous in too many clubhouses, and he set just such an example.
                        Well, I've got to disagree a bit about this. Reggie WAS the straw on 5 World Series champions, so sure, he was a braggart, but those teams would probably not have won without him. If he was such a cancer those teams would just not have performed as well. This doesn't mean Reggie was pals with all his teammates, but they all knew when the game was on the line they could count on Reggie, be it in the post or regular season.

                        Whereas with Rose, I think his reputation belies the facts. I don't think there's ever been a guy so enamored with his own stats as Rose. Does that sound like a "team guy"? Add into that comments from teammates like Bench and Morgan who didn't particulary relish playing with him and one begins to wonder. And the stuff about him making the ASG at so many positions really overrated. He got a lot of hits, no denying that. But he wasn't any good at any position, so his "versatility" really is a chimera. He just wasn't horrible at anyone position, so Sparky could put him out there and he wouldn't embarrass the team.

                        Don't get me wrong, Pete got those hits, and the teams he played on won, but I'd take Reggie any day over Pete.

                        KH14
                        “Well, I like to say I’m completely focused, right? I mean, the game’s on the line. It’s not like I’m thinking about what does barbecue Pop Chips and Cholula taste like. Because I already know that answer — it tastes friggin’ awesome!"--Brian Wilson

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                        • #13
                          Rose was a MACHINE,probably the best all around player ever,defense switch hitter great mind for the game and would GIVE his body,,even in all star games....that one is easy.

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                          • #14
                            --Best all around player in the game? A little over the top don't you think. Rose was a very good hitter for average, with modest power. A good (not great) baserunner, but lousy basestealer. A good corner outfielder who was willing and able to play the IF to help his team, but not very good at it. Sure I'd like to have him on my team, but the only area he could possibly claim greatness in would be hitting for average and quite a few guys were better in that area than he was.

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                            • #15
                              you cant put a price tag on what a great clutch player he was or how he put in on the line ..the guy produced everywhee,,he hustled and gave his all even in all star games....cant find a player in this generation that even lays it out there half as much as he did...hits hits hits.

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