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Teams with the best pitcher AND best hitter in baseball at the same time?

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  • Teams with the best pitcher AND best hitter in baseball at the same time?

    As a Detroit Tiger fan, I'm ecstatic that my team now fields the best hitter (Cabrera) and the best starting pitcher (Verlander) in the game. I was wracking my brain trying to come up with a time when the Tigers had both on their team, and I don't think they ever have. The closest they've come was probably the 1930s, when they had guys like Schoolboy Rowe and Tommy Bridges on their pitching staff, and hitters like Greenberg and Gehringer. But although these were all fine players, and in some cases HOFers, none of them were considered THE best during their careers.

    So I'm fairly certain the Tigers have never had the best pitcher/hitter combination. Then I started thinking about other teams...and for the life of me, I can't come up with any! I'm sure there were. I know the Red Sox came close with Pedro and Manny, but when Manny was going strong, first of all he was most likely juicing, which in my mind disqualifies him; but, even with the juice, I don't think Manny was universally acknowledged as the greatest hitter (with other juicers like Bonds, McGwire, etc. as contemporaries)

    Can anyone name a team that had players who were pretty much universally acknowledged as the best hitter and pitcher in the game at the same time? I'm coming up with a blank!!!
    "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

  • #2
    Maybe Lefty Grove and Jimmy Foxx. I don't know if Jimmy Foxx was really considered the best hitter though.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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    • #3
      Carton/Schmidt @ 80/81 come to mind. Though I think Brett was considered the best hitter in MLB, at least in the NL it could be plausible since Foster and Parker had slipped and there was no dominant BA hitter.

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      • #4
        1988 Twins, Allan Anderson and Kirby Puckett

        Anderson, 16-9 record, league leading 2.45 ERA
        Puckett, 24 HR, 121 RBI, led league in hits(234) and total bases(358), batted .356, won Gold Glove in centerfield

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        • #5
          Originally posted by pheasant View Post
          1988 Twins, Allan Anderson and Kirby Puckett

          Anderson, 16-9 record, league leading 2.45 ERA
          Puckett, 24 HR, 121 RBI, led league in hits(234) and total bases(358), batted .356, won Gold Glove in centerfield
          You say Anderson and not Frank Viola?
          Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
          Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
          Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
          Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
          Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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          • #6
            Gavvy Cravath and Pete Alexander.
            Mel Ott and Carl Hubbell.
            Mort Cooper and Stan Musial.
            Mel Parnell and Ted Williams.

            Not a whole lot comes to mind.
            "Here's a crazy thought I've always had: if they cut three fingers off each hand, I'd really be a great hitter because then I could level off better." Paul Waner (lifetime .333 hitter, 3,152 lifetime hits.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
              You say Anderson and not Frank Viola?
              ...Or Orel Hershiser????
              My top 10 players:

              1. Babe Ruth
              2. Barry Bonds
              3. Ty Cobb
              4. Ted Williams
              5. Willie Mays
              6. Alex Rodriguez
              7. Hank Aaron
              8. Honus Wagner
              9. Lou Gehrig
              10. Mickey Mantle

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
                You say Anderson and not Frank Viola?

                That's right. 1988 was Viola's big year, not 1987. I stand corrected. I'll take Viola, but just barely over Anderson in 1988. Anderson finished that year strong, going 10-2 with 1.83 ERA. He had terrible run support, which is why he had a 6-7 record early on despite a very good 2.98 ERA. But I would take Anderson's 1988 season over Hershiser's. Anderson pitched in the homer dome against DHs. Hershiser got to pitch in a very pitcher-friendly stadium while not dealing with DHs.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by pheasant View Post
                  That's right. 1988 was Viola's big year, not 1987. I stand corrected. I'll take Viola, but just barely over Anderson in 1988. Anderson finished that year strong, going 10-2 with 1.83 ERA. He had terrible run support, which is why he had a 6-7 record early on despite a very good 2.98 ERA. But I would take Anderson's 1988 season over Hershiser's. Anderson pitched in the homer dome against DHs. Hershiser got to pitch in a very pitcher-friendly stadium while not dealing with DHs.
                  202 innings for Anderson vs. 267 for for Hershiser - plus another 42 in the postseason.

                  15 CG and 8 SO for Hershiser. Anderson had 3 CG and 1 SO. It really isn't close between these two.
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bill James wrote about this in one of his Abstracts. At the time, the Red Sox had Clemens and Boggs.

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                    • #11
                      For what it's worth, 18 teams have had the MVP and Cy Young winner in the same season:

                      1957 Braves
                      1959 White Sox
                      1960 Pirates
                      1961 Yankees
                      1962 Dodgers
                      1967 Red Sox
                      1974 Dodgers
                      1980 Phillies
                      1982 Brewers
                      1984 Cubs
                      1988 Dodgers
                      1990 A's
                      1990 Pirates
                      1991 Braves
                      1993 White Sox
                      2002 A's
                      2005 Cardinals
                      2006 Twins
                      Last edited by GiambiJuice; 10-11-2012, 10:38 AM.
                      My top 10 players:

                      1. Babe Ruth
                      2. Barry Bonds
                      3. Ty Cobb
                      4. Ted Williams
                      5. Willie Mays
                      6. Alex Rodriguez
                      7. Hank Aaron
                      8. Honus Wagner
                      9. Lou Gehrig
                      10. Mickey Mantle

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
                        Carton/Schmidt @ 80/81 come to mind. Though I think Brett was considered the best hitter in MLB, at least in the NL it could be plausible since Foster and Parker had slipped and there was no dominant BA hitter.
                        If we are looking at just one point in time, Brett and Saberhagen in '85 perhaps at least for their league. Gooden was the best pitcher, but Saberhagen added 2-0 and 0.50 era in 2 complete games in the WS allowing 11 hits which I think were all singles, and only 1 walk. (sub .200 ob% and slugging%).

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                        • #13
                          In 1990 Drabek was the best pitcher in the NL, and Bonds was the best offensive player in the majorsand probably best hitter.

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                          • #14
                            Can we merge the two threads?
                            Chop! Chop! Chop!

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                            • #15
                              From 1977-1981 the Reds had Foster and Seaver together. Was Foster considered the best hitter in the game? I know it was close between him and Rice.

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