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Teams with the best pitcher AND best hitter in baseball at the same time?

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  • Teams with the best pitcher AND best hitter in baseball at the same time?

    As a Detroit Tiger fan, I'm ecstatic that my team now fields the best hitter (Cabrera) and the best starting pitcher (Verlander) in the game. I was wracking my brain trying to come up with a time when the Tigers had both on their team, and I don't think they ever have. The closest they've come was probably the 1930s, when they had guys like Schoolboy Rowe and Tommy Bridges on their pitching staff, and hitters like Greenberg and Gehringer. But although these were all fine players, and in some cases HOFers, none of them were considered THE best during their careers.

    So I'm fairly certain the Tigers have never had the best pitcher/hitter combination. Then I started thinking about other teams...and for the life of me, I can't come up with any! I'm sure there were. I know the Red Sox came close with Pedro and Manny, but when Manny was going strong, first of all he was most likely juicing, which in my mind disqualifies him; but, even with the juice, I don't think Manny was universally acknowledged as the greatest hitter (with other juicers like Bonds, McGwire, etc. as contemporaries)

    Can anyone name a team that had players who were pretty much universally acknowledged as the best hitter and pitcher in the game at the same time? I'm coming up with a blank!!!
    "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

  • #2
    Clemens and Boggs? Aaron and Spahn? Foxx and Grove? Mantle and Ford?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by leecemark View Post
      Clemens and Boggs? Aaron and Spahn? Foxx and Grove? Mantle and Ford?
      I second Mantle and Ford, Foxx and Grove, and Aaron and Spahn. Not sure about Boggs as the greatest though.
      “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

      "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

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      • #4
        Foxx and Grove were 1 and 2 in war during the 1932 season so I would say they have the best case.

        Steve Carlton and Mike Schmidt might have a case during the early 80's.
        "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

        "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by leecemark View Post
          Clemens and Boggs? Aaron and Spahn? Foxx and Grove? Mantle and Ford?

          First of all, mods, I accidentally posted two of these threads...could you please merge 'em? Thanks.

          Clemens and Boggs...that's a good one, although I'm not sure Clemens was considered THE best until after Boggs left. Aaron and Spahn is a good call...but Whitey Ford was never considered the best pitcher in baseball, I don't think...
          "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
            Foxx and Grove were 1 and 2 in war during the 1932 season so I would say they have the best case.

            Steve Carlton and Mike Schmidt might have a case during the early 80's.

            Good ones...Foxx and Grove, I agree, probably have the best case, although Gehrig was considered above Foxx as a hitter. during the early 30s.

            Carlton and Schmidt are also a good call.
            "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

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            • #7
              I thought I was losing my mind because I thought I had posted about Foxx and Grove earlier.
              "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

              "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

              Comment


              • #8
                Pujols and Carpenter in 2005.
                My top 10 players:

                1. Babe Ruth
                2. Barry Bonds
                3. Ty Cobb
                4. Ted Williams
                5. Willie Mays
                6. Alex Rodriguez
                7. Hank Aaron
                8. Honus Wagner
                9. Lou Gehrig
                10. Mickey Mantle

                Comment


                • #9
                  Marichal and McCovey in 1969.
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Victory Faust View Post

                    Clemens and Boggs...that's a good one, although I'm not sure Clemens was considered THE best until after Boggs left.
                    In 1986-1987, Clemens had 2 CY and 1 MVP.
                    Code:
                                                                             
                    Rk          Player ERA+    IP  G  W  L W-L%  SO  ERA OPS+
                    1    Roger Clemens  160 535.2 69 44 13 .772 494 2.74   61
                    2        Jimmy Key  140 493.0 72 31 19 .620 302 3.14   75
                    3       Mike Scott  139 523.0 73 34 23 .596 539 2.70   61
                    4    Teddy Higuera  134 510.0 69 38 21 .644 447 3.34   77
                    5        Bob Ojeda  130 263.2 42 21 10 .677 169 2.80   77
                    86-87, Boggs led majors in OPS+, AVG & OBP.
                    Code:
                                                                        
                    Rk          Player OPS+   G   PA   AB   BA  OBP  SLG
                    1       Wade Boggs  165 296 1360 1131 .360 .457 .536
                    2      Kal Daniels  162 182  637  549 .330 .419 .585
                    3     Mark McGwire  157 169  699  610 .280 .361 .597
                    4       Jack Clark  156 196  839  651 .269 .427 .535
                    5    Don Mattingly  154 303 1372 1246 .340 .387 .567

                    Boggs was with Boston through 1992. By that time, Clemens had already won 3 Cy awards and 1 MVP. That's a pretty good arguement for being considered the best pitcher.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Perhaps Mel Ott and Carl Hubbard at some point?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Cy Young and Jesse Burkett with the Cleveland Spiders possibly.
                        "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                        "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Victory Faust View Post
                          First of all, mods, I accidentally posted two of these threads...could you please merge 'em? Thanks.

                          Clemens and Boggs...that's a good one, although I'm not sure Clemens was considered THE best until after Boggs left. Aaron and Spahn is a good call...but Whitey Ford was never considered the best pitcher in baseball, I don't think...
                          How about 1961? Maybe he wasn't, but not considered @ 25-4?
                          Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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                          • #14
                            Foxx and Grove are my choice but stayin with the A's, I'll throw some love toward Stewart and Henderson

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                            • #15
                              how about the dodgers in 2011?

                              Kershaw won the CY and kemp should have probably won the MVP. also the 2011 tigers are in the race with verlander clearly being the best pitcher and cabrera also had a case (maybe close second to bautista).

                              I think the 2011 tigers probably have a better case then the 2012 tigers since verlander probably is "only" the no. 2 guy this season (price is probably going to win the CY).
                              I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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