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League MVP and World Series Champ - what used to be normal is now unique

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  • League MVP and World Series Champ - what used to be normal is now unique

    I did a quick look back at players who were League MVPs and played on a World Series Champion (crossing my fingers for Posey)

    and was surprised to see what used to be quite common is now unique

    As far as I can tell, the last MVP to play on a WS Champ was Kirk Gibson in 1988 - that is an unbelievable 24 years.

    From 1939 to 1988 (50 seasons) there were a whopping 33 such players

    1939 DiMaggio
    1940 McCormick
    1941 DiMaggio
    1942 Cooper
    1943 Chandler
    1944 Marion
    1945 Newhouser
    1946 Musial
    1947 DiMaggio (only 3 timer from this list)
    1948 Boudreau (10 straight 1939-48)
    1950 Rizzuto
    1951 Berra
    1954 Mays
    1955 Campanella
    1956 Mantle
    1957 Aaron
    1960 Groat
    1961 Maris
    1962 Mantle
    1963 Koufax
    1964 Boyer (5 straight 1960-64)
    1966 Robinson
    1967 Cepeda
    1968 McLain
    1970 Powell
    1973 Jackson
    1975 Morgan
    1976 Morgan (only player on this list to do it in consecutive seasons)
    1979 Stargell (tied for MVP)
    1980 Schmidt
    1983 Ripken
    1984 Hernandez
    1988 Gibson
    Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 11-03-2012, 12:36 PM.
    1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
    2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
    3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    It is strange. Of course there are now 30 teams as compared to 16, then 20 through the late 60s, so it's less likely. Still, pretty unusual. Posey almost certainly will win the NL MVP so this streak will be broken.

    Comment


    • #3
      It shouldn't come as a surprise, considering the voting is done before the playoffs, and there's more playoff teams now. In the old days, they would vote for a guy on the first place team, which went right to the world series. Now, if you vote for a guy on a playoff team, there's much less of a chance of that team winning it all.
      Last edited by willshad; 11-03-2012, 12:12 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by willshad View Post
        It shouldn't come as a surprise, considering the voting is done before the playoffs, and there's more playoff teams now. In the old days, they would vote for a guy on the first place team, which went right to the world series.
        This is exactly why. The old "how valuable can a guy be if his team doesn't make the playoffs" mantra was the predominant one back then. Not that it was always the case, but the conversation started with the best player on the pennant winner, and if nobody was that great on that team, they would look for big HR/RBI/BA totals on a team that was close to the playoffs next. Generally speaking, of course.
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        • #5
          well it should not go from 67% to zero percent

          zero in 23-24 years is pretty amazing
          1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
          2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
          3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            It makes sense, though. If you voted for a guy on a playoff team back then, there basically was a 50/50 chance they'd be on a world series winner...and an even greater chance if he was a Yankee. Nowadays, there's more like a 12% chance. Not to mention the fact that some recent MVPs were guys not on playoff teams, and there are many more players to choose from now.
            Last edited by willshad; 11-03-2012, 12:21 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
              well it should not go from 67% to zero percent

              zero in 23-24 years is pretty amazing
              Yeah - that is not the only reason, but probably the biggest one.
              1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

              1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

              1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
              The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

              Comment


              • #8
                Also, the voters were MUCH more biased back in the day. One year, Ted Williams embarassed the league when he won the triple crown, yet fell one 10th place vote shy of winning the MVP. How could Williams not even muster a 10th place vote from one of the voters? Lou Gehrig's 1934 season was his 2nd best season(had career high 49 HRs, posted his 2nd highest OPS+ season ever, won the MLB triple crown), yet finished 5th in the voting.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by pheasant View Post
                  Also, the voters were MUCH more biased back in the day. One year, Ted Williams embarassed the league when he won the triple crown, yet fell one 10th place vote shy of winning the MVP. How could Williams not even muster a 10th place vote from one of the voters? Lou Gehrig's 1934 season was his 2nd best season(had career high 49 HRs, posted his 2nd highest OPS+ season ever, won the MLB triple crown), yet finished 5th in the voting.
                  What year was this?

                  It certainly wasn't 1947 and here is some great info:

                  To wit, in that very same election that Williams was left off of a ballot, DiMaggio was left off of three ballots! And on three other ballots, DiMaggio got a third-to-last vote, a second-to-last vote and a last place vote. Whatever you thought of DiMaggio in 1947, he was clearly one of the top seven players in the American League, so to be left off of three ballots and finish between eighth and tenth on three others is ludicrous, as well.

                  You can't cry you were left off one vote when DiMaggio was left off 3 and still beat you

                  Read more here

                  http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spor...ff-the-ba.html

                  It wasn't 1942 when Gordon beat Williams by 21 points
                  Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 11-03-2012, 12:46 PM.
                  1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                  2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                  3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                    You can't cry you were left off one vote when DiMaggio was left off 3 and still beat you
                    If Williams was left off of one ballot, then DiMaggio deserved to be left off of a LOT more than just three. Williams deserved to win by a landslide.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ipitch View Post
                      If Williams was left off of one ballot, then DiMaggio deserved to be left off of a LOT more than just three. Williams deserved to win by a landslide.
                      Williams received 3 first place votes out of 24

                      5 other players received first place votes
                      1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                      2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                      3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                        Williams received 3 first place votes out of 24

                        5 other players received first place votes
                        I don't know why that matters. Wouldn't you agree that Williams was robbed?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It was 1947. And I get the fact that OPS didn't matter then. Williams crushed Dimaggio in OPS by a whopping 220 points.

                          But even if we consider traditional stats, they look like this:

                          Dimaggio: 97 runs, 168 hits, 20 HR, 97 RBI, .315 AVG
                          Williams: 125 runs, 181 hits, 32 HR, 114 RBI, .343 AVG.

                          Willliams collected 13 more hits than Dimaggio despite drawing 98 more walks that year!

                          It's sick that one of the voters didn't even put Williams in the top 10 that year. That'd be like Cabrera this year not making the top 10 with one of the voters. Actually, it's more extreme than that because Mr. Trout had a whale of a year and there were more legit contenders this year(compared to 1947, anyway)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ^ and three did not place DiMaggio in top ten he still won

                            DiMaggio played in cavernous Yankee stadium Williams played in cozy fenway park

                            DiMaggio was an excellent CF Williams was average or less LF

                            Williams played 15 more games than DiMaggio
                            Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 11-03-2012, 01:39 PM.
                            1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                            2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                            3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                              DiMaggio played in cavernous Yankee stadium Williams played in cozy fenway park
                              I knew you'd say that eventually (although I am surprised that you didn't say "DEATH VALLEY" like usual). Did you not notice that in 1947 Williams outhit DiMaggio in road games, by a good margin?

                              Williams played 15 more games than DiMaggio
                              That's a negative for DiMaggio.
                              Last edited by ipitch; 11-03-2012, 01:59 PM.

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