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The Hall of Forgotten Distinction

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  • The Hall of Forgotten Distinction

    I know that there was been a thread like this, but I couldn’t find it. I know these guys aren’t HOFers, or will even have a HOF consideration thread(at least a serious one). They may not even make the hall of very good. They never won an MVP or a CYA. But whether it was a nice peak that was too short, or a steady but unspectacular career, they belong in the Hall of Forgotten Distinction.

    I’ll offer these players, feel free to add your own.

    Jim Fregosi People forget that he was a top flight American League shortstop. From 1962 to 1970, he was a 6 time all-star and received MVP votes for 8 straight years. During that 9 year peak his line was .271/.342/.409. He was 7th in MVP voting in 1967 and was part of a stellar DP combination with Bobby Knoop. He went through the 70’s as a utility player and became a fine MGR, but he is largely forgotten as a top SS.

    Carlos Baerga Had a nice little peak from 92-95 .315/.350/.476 3 all-star games, 2 silver sluggers, 120 OPS+

    Joel Horlen from 64-68, with the hitless wonder White Sox, he had a nice peak. W/L just 66-57, but ERA 2.32 ERA+ 138 and whip 1.060 4th in MVP voting in 1967

    Ken Holtzman during his peak with championship A’s, he was 77-55 from 72-75 with a 2.92 ERA. Even better, he has a 2.30 ERA in 70 postseason innings. In 35 innings of ALCS play, he has a whip of 0.857.

    JT Snow he had some sock , but his forgotten distinction is those 6 Gold Gloves in a row.
    Last edited by JR Hart; 11-04-2012, 10:04 PM.
    This week's Giant

    #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

  • #2
    Nice thread idea. I'll add:

    Dave Stewart - Actually, may not quite fit the model, as it's his distinction that's remembered. What gets forgotten is that he had a 16-year career. People remember his 87-90 run, one of the best peaks ever for a pitcher who was basically average for the other 12 years.

    Jeff Torborg - An average manager and a terrible hitter as a player, but one of the greats defensively. His singular distinction is catching no hitters for both Sandy Koufax and Nolan Ryan. I'm guessing both considered him integral to their success.

    Delino DeShields - Conventional wisdom says it all went south after he was traded for Pedro Martinez, but even counting his lousy years with the Dodgers, his OBP is over .350. He'd be one of the leading base stealers of all-time, too, if not for the fact that his career was cut short because he never did figure out how to make contact with any regularity or learn to field his...errr- any- position.

    Mike Scoscia - Probably won't ever get serious consideration as a manager. I was shocked to learn he never won a Gold Glove. He certainly deserved some. All you need to know about the Hall's questionable election standards- his batting stats are almost identical to Ray Schalk's, with less speed and more power.

    I didn't mean to make them all Dodgers. I guess those are just the players that come to mind most readily.
    Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

    1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

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    • #3
      Oh, and for a non-Dodger, how about Jerry Koosman? A Stewart-like career, only with peak years broken up. If only he could've put together just a few more years like his '68-'70, '76 and '79 seasons, he'd have a plaque. Remembered mostly for being a cog in that magic '69 season, he did have a 19-year career with over 200 wins. And yet the only major category he ever led the league in is losses. Twice.
      Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

      1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

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      • #4
        How about Ed Konetchy? He was arguably the NL's best first baseman during his career, but even many hardcore fans probably don't know much about him.
        Baseball Junk Drawer

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        • #5
          How about:

          Leo Cardenas

          Dennis Martinez

          Hal McRae

          Larry Parrish

          Dale Mitchell

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          • #6
            What about Paul Quantrill? I ran across him for the first time while researching another worthy, John Hiller.

            Quantrill had a nifty little 7-year run of 523 games with a 2.81 era, good for a 160 era+. He managed this with only 17 saves and 570 hits in 537 innings. He was (obviously) not good at preventing inherited runners from scoring, but as a reliever, he was second only to Mariano Rivera in pitching wins over that interval. I don't know if he was real good or just real weird, but it is a record of distinction, and as far as I'm concerned, utterly obscure.

            I was in Japan most of that time, so maybe he's well-known and I just missed him. But I haven't seen him mentioned here.
            Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 11-05-2012, 04:10 AM.
            Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
              What about Paul Quantrill? I ran across him for the first time while researching another worthy, John Hiller.

              Quantrill had a nifty little 7-year run of 523 games with a 2.81 era, good for a 160 era+. He managed this with only 17 saves and 570 hits in 537 innings. He was (obviously) not good at preventing inherited runners from scoring, but as a reliever, he was second only to Mariano Rivera in pitching wins over that interval. I don't know if he was real good or just real weird, but it is a record of distinction, and as far as I'm concerned, utterly obscure.

              I was in Japan most of that time, so maybe he's well-known and I just missed him. But I haven't seen him mentioned here.
              As far as middle relievers go, he was fairly well-respected. I wouldn't say he was ever really a household name though.
              Baseball Junk Drawer

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              • #8
                Chet Lemon is an almost unkown WAR hero. He played for 16 seasons on mostly good teams, and made three All-Star teams. He was, for a few years, the best defensive centerfielder in the American League, although you wouldn't know it from the Gold Glove voting. Lemon's best defensive years featured Gold Gloves going to Fred Lynn, who did the wall-crashing thing very well, and four times to Dave WInfield, who was one of the poorest defensive centerfielders in the league, but who could really hit.

                Lemon had two years with a WAR of 6.0, plus another of 5.6. His career OPS+ was 121, and his career WAR was 52.0. That's in some good company, right next to Bill Terry and between Joe Medwick and Enos Slaughter.

                He was no Hall of Famer, but a guy that should have been recognized more when he was playing, and hugely underrated.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by toomanyhatz View Post
                  Oh, and for a non-Dodger, how about Jerry Koosman? A Stewart-like career, only with peak years broken up. If only he could've put together just a few more years like his '68-'70, '76 and '79 seasons, he'd have a plaque. Remembered mostly for being a cog in that magic '69 season, he did have a 19-year career with over 200 wins. And yet the only major category he ever led the league in is losses. Twice.
                  Koosman was too good to be on this list.
                  1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                  1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                  1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                  The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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                  • #10
                    Kal Daniels.

                    He only played 7 seasons in the big leagues and he was done at age 28. I would imagine he's mostly forgotten now, but he averaged .300/.402/.514 over his first 5 seasons, good for a 151 OPS+

                    Daniels is one of only 16 players in Major League history (Mike Trout being the most recent) to hit .325 with 25 HR and 25 SB in the same season. When he did it in 1987, he was only the 3rd player in Major League history at the time, and the first since Willie Mays in 1958.

                    Daniels was never an All Star.
                    My top 10 players:

                    1. Babe Ruth
                    2. Barry Bonds
                    3. Ty Cobb
                    4. Ted Williams
                    5. Willie Mays
                    6. Alex Rodriguez
                    7. Hank Aaron
                    8. Honus Wagner
                    9. Lou Gehrig
                    10. Mickey Mantle

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                    • #11
                      Ed Ruelbach was a good pitcher who is largely forgotten.He is the only pitcher since 1900 to pitch two shutouts in one day.He is the only NL pitcher to lead in Winning % three straight years.Ruelbach also is 18th all time in ERA and never had a season where he gave up more hits than innings pitched.Ruelbach had a lifetime Winning % of .632 and ERA of 2.28.As I have posted in a previous thread,Ed died on the exact day that Ty Cobb died on.Cobb and Ruelbach played in consecutive World Series against each other-I believe they are the only former WS foes to die on the same day!

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                      • #12
                        Generally ignored multiple 20-Game Winners :

                        Paul Derringer: 4x, 3 straight from 1938-1940, MVP contender several years

                        Dennis Leonard: 3x, never an All Star

                        George Earnshaw: 3x straight from 1929-1931, impressive in WS (1.58 ERA in 8 starts), late career start

                        General Crowder: 3x, 2 straight seasons of leading league in Wins totaling 50 Wins in those 2 seasons for Washington

                        Harry Coveleski: 3x straight from 1914-1916

                        Larry Cheney: 3x straight from 1912-1914, 1912 can be considered a Rookie season, although not his 1st year with play

                        Vean Gregg: 3x straight from 1911-1913 in 1st 3 seasons, led league in ERA in 1911 Rookie season

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                        • #13
                          How about Sam Leever and Steve Rogers?
                          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                            How about Sam Leever and Steve Rogers?
                            I guess it all depends on one's perspective. I would classify Leever and probably Rogers as a bit too good for this list. Leever was good to very good for the Pirates for a number of years and Rogers was the top itcher on a lot of so-so Expos teams. I remember seeing him pitch against the Pirates- a very good hitting team- and they often had real trouble with him.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                              Kal Daniels.

                              He only played 7 seasons in the big leagues and he was done at age 28. I would imagine he's mostly forgotten now, but he averaged .300/.402/.514 over his first 5 seasons, good for a 151 OPS+

                              Daniels is one of only 16 players in Major League history (Mike Trout being the most recent) to hit .325 with 25 HR and 25 SB in the same season. When he did it in 1987, he was only the 3rd player in Major League history at the time, and the first since Willie Mays in 1958.

                              Daniels was never an All Star.
                              And a Dodger, too. Can't believe I missed him. Like Strawberry with the Dodgers, everyone was expecting great things from him and when he had one very good to excellent season, we were disappointed that it wasn't as good as we expected. Little did we know that was the best we were gonna get.
                              Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

                              1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

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