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Heinie Manush vs Carlos Delgado

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  • Heinie Manush vs Carlos Delgado

    I'm going to run a series of polls with the winner advancing each time to face another opponent. Will leave each poll up for a week. I'll try to provide as much statistical information as possible. Hopefully we can get some lively insightful debates going and bring to light some overlooked players from yesteryear.
    If you could pick between these two players to start your franchise with which would you pick? Please consider all relavent information. Their careers as a whole, peak performance, hitting, fielding, baserunning, positional value, league quality, etc.

    Heinie Manush

    2008 games
    8419 plate appearances
    7654 at-bats
    1287 runs
    2524 hits
    491 doubles
    160 triples
    110 home runs
    1183 RBI
    113 stolen bases
    59 caught stealing
    506 walks
    345 strikeouts
    .330 AVG
    .377 OBP
    .479 SLG
    .856 OPS
    121 OPS+
    3665 total bases
    1369 runs created
    6.8 RC/G
    110 AIR
    .644 OW%
    .826 Total Average
    .222 Secondary Average
    281.5 Win Shares
    127.5 WSAB
    41.5 rWAR
    49.4 fWAR
    41.6 sWAR

    Carlos Delgado

    2035 games
    8657 plate appearances
    7283 at-bats
    1241 runs
    2038 hits
    483 doubles
    18 triples
    473 home runs
    1512 RBI
    14 stolen bases
    8 caught stealing
    1109 walks
    1745 strikeouts
    .280 AVG
    .383 OBP
    .546 SLG
    .929 OPS
    138 OPS+
    3976 total bases
    1588 runs created
    7.7 RC/G
    110 AIR
    .678 OW%
    .974 Total Average
    .419 Secondary Average
    303.8 Win Shares
    161.2 WSAB
    40.5 rWAR
    46.3 fWAR
    47.7 sWAR

    Previous results

    Willie Montanez vs Dave Kingman
    Dave Kingman vs Dante Bichette
    Dave Kingman vs Jose Guillen
    Dave Kingman vs Dave Philley
    Dave Kingman vs Shano Collins
    Dave Kingman vs Eric Karros
    Dave Kingman vs Charlie Grimm
    Charlie Grimm vs Juan Gonzalez
    Juan Gonzalez vs Bill Buckner
    Juan Gonzalez vs Ruben Sierra
    Juan Gonzalez vs Gee Walker
    Juan Gonzalez vs Patsy Donovan
    Juan Gonzalez vs Joe Carter
    Juan Gonzalez vs Tommy Davis
    Juan Gonzalez vs Charlie Jamieson
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    Juan Gonzalez vs Hal Chase
    Juan Gonzalez vs Lee May
    Juan Gonzalez vs Joe Kuhel
    Juan Gonzalez vs Willie Horton
    Juan Gonzalez vs Chris Chambliss
    Juan Gonzalez vs Hal McRae
    Juan Gonzalez vs Andres Galarraga
    Juan Gonzalez vs George Hendrick
    Juan Gonzalez vs Garret Anderson
    Juan Gonzalez vs George Burns
    Juan Gonzalez vs Wally Moses
    Juan Gonzalez vs Del Ennis
    Juan Gonzalez vs Don Baylor
    Juan Gonzalez vs Shawn Green
    Juan Gonzalez vs Stuffy McInnis
    Juan Gonzalez vs Wally Pipp
    Juan Gonzalez vs Gary Matthews
    Juan Gonzalez vs Bobby Bonilla
    Juan Gonzalez vs Mickey Vernon
    Mickey Vernon vs Jose Canseco
    Mickey Vernon vs Carlos Delgado
    Carlos Delgado vs B.J. Surhoff
    Carlos Delgado vs Ken Griffey Sr
    Carlos Delgado vs Wally Joyner
    Carlos Delgado vs Cecil Cooper
    Carlos Delgado vs Jim Bottomley
    Carlos Delgado vs Harold Baines
    Carlos Delgado vs Chili Davis
    Carlos Delgado vs Steve Garvey
    Carlos Delgado vs Magglio Ordonez
    Carlos Delgado vs Paul O'Neil
    Carlos Delgado vs Dave Parker
    Carlos Delgado vs Moises Alou
    Carlos Delgado vs Jake Daubert
    Carlos Delgado vs George J Burns
    Carlos Delgado vs Felipe Alou
    Carlos Delgado vs Don Mattingly
    Carlos Delgado vs Hugh Duffy
    Carlos Delgado vs Al Oliver
    Carlos Delgado vs Dixie Walker
    Carlos Delgado vs Fred Tenney
    Carlos Delgado vs Chuck Klein
    11
    Heinie Manush
    18.18%
    2
    Carlos Delgado
    81.82%
    9

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by Sockeye; 11-06-2012, 08:24 AM.
    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

  • #2
    Delgado's a tough call IMO, because I'll always have that "wonder" spot as to how he'd do as a catcher - which he was drafted. The Jays were smart also IMO ot move him out and let him play every day. On a 1-10 scale as a 1B i'd give him a 7-8. BUT if he maintained his original position, he'd likely be a 9. Then again he could have outgrown the position or gotten injured - which we'll never know.
    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

    Comment


    • #3
      It's interesting I keep hearing that Delgado is a borderline HOF case but yet he has been chosen rather easily over Jim Bottomley, Hugh Duffy, and Chuck Klein. All of which are lower tier HOFers, but yet I never really hear them mentioned as HOF mistakes either. I'd think either Delgado is ahead of those three and has a solid HOF case or Delgado is borderline which makes those three HOF mistakes?
      My dream ballpark dimensions
      LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
      RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
      Location....San Diego

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ben Grimm View Post
        Delgado's a tough call IMO, because I'll always have that "wonder" spot as to how he'd do as a catcher - which he was drafted. The Jays were smart also IMO ot move him out and let him play every day. On a 1-10 scale as a 1B i'd give him a 7-8. BUT if he maintained his original position, he'd likely be a 9. Then again he could have outgrown the position or gotten injured - which we'll never know.
        If he had remained a catcher, he would not have likely not had anywhere near the same numbers, or longevity.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
          It's interesting I keep hearing that Delgado is a borderline HOF case but yet he has been chosen rather easily over Jim Bottomley, Hugh Duffy, and Chuck Klein. All of which are lower tier HOFers, but yet I never really hear them mentioned as HOF mistakes either. I'd think either Delgado is ahead of those three and has a solid HOF case or Delgado is borderline which makes those three HOF mistakes?
          I'd wager to guess that most people on this board would say Bottomley, and especially Klein, are HOF mistakes.

          Comment


          • #6
            I have Delgato by a decent margin over Manush. I fall into the camp that Klein and Bottomly are mistakes for the Hall.

            Comment


            • #7
              Don't we already have Delgado > Oliver & Oliver = Manush?
              Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
                It's interesting I keep hearing that Delgado is a borderline HOF case but yet he has been chosen rather easily over Jim Bottomley, Hugh Duffy, and Chuck Klein. All of which are lower tier HOFers, but yet I never really hear them mentioned as HOF mistakes either. I'd think either Delgado is ahead of those three and has a solid HOF case or Delgado is borderline which makes those three HOF mistakes?
                It's a joke that Chuck Klein is even in the HOF. He is probably the biggest fraud ever.

                The biggest joke is that a park with the dimension of the Baker Bowl was even built and used by the MLB for so long.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mr Manush is a fave, but gotta go with Delgado here. A masher.

                  Klein-well was he Larry Walker or Bichette? Walker-Hof no matter where he hit, Bichette just a good hitter. Klein is Ok to me, but its a close call.

                  Bottomley is at least reasonable, had areal good 9 yr run in his younger years to make his case. He isn't a great pick.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sockeye, I'm guessing rWAR is Baseball-Reference, and fWAR is Fangraphs, but what is sWAR? I notice it's more often the source of a disparity than the other two. Some league quality factor?

                    (I googled it with no result, although I did get a hit on the delightfully entitled site, "Leonard Koppett Memorial Hall of Bad HOF Voters.")
                    Last edited by Jackaroo Dave; 11-05-2012, 08:50 PM.
                    Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Delgado>Manush>Bottomly>Klein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
                        It's a joke that Chuck Klein is even in the HOF. He is probably the biggest fraud ever.

                        The biggest joke is that a park with the dimension of the Baker Bowl was even built and used by the MLB for so long.
                        Agreed. Klein's road stats are rather pedestrian for the highest scoring era ever: .286/.346/.466. Those stats aren't that much above the league average for that era.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                          Sockeye, I'm guessing rWAR is Baseball-Reference, and fWAR is Fangraphs, but what is sWAR? I notice it's more often the source of a disparity than the other two. Some league quality factor?

                          (I googled it with no result, although I did get a hit on the delightfully entitled site, "Leonard Koppett Memorial Hall of Bad HOF Voters.")
                          It comes from seamheads.com as does the win shares and win shares above bench.
                          My dream ballpark dimensions
                          LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                          RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                          Location....San Diego

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
                            It comes from seamheads.com as does the win shares and win shares above bench.
                            Thank you, Sockeye.
                            Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jackaroo Dave View Post
                              Thank you, Sockeye.
                              My pleasure Dave
                              My dream ballpark dimensions
                              LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                              RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                              Location....San Diego

                              Comment

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